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Wednesday, April 25, 2012 | 2 a.m.
Do you still own your guns and Bibles? Did the government take your weapons to arm President Barack Obama’s secret military? Are communists in control of our government? Did Obama ban right-wing radio? Did Obama really cancel the National Day of Prayer? Is President Obama truly the Antichrist?
These are just a few of the scenarios presented by fear-mongering Republicans in 2008. Why do these blatantly false rumors continue to circulate? It’s very simple: The GOP can offer no policies other than to cut taxes, ban abortions, and strip the elderly and the poor of what little they have.
In November 2008, Susan Eisenhower wrote the following:
“People who share traditional Republican values have nothing to fear from Sen. Obama.
“We have had many chapters in American history when fear has gotten the better of us and ‘guilt by association’ or ‘guilt by race, ethnicity or gender’ has prevailed. But we must be better than that. In today’s fractured and challenging times, spreading false rumors is not only divisive, it is downright dangerous. We will only survive if we pull together and unite as a nation.”
The truth behind her commentary couldn’t be better stated.
Vernos,
The fear is with democrats who can't defend Obama's record. Democrats are already worn from defending Obama's indefensible record. Obama had to start his re-election campaign early, 2 1/2 years into his 4-year term, in order to distract from his poor record. He's had to paint businesses and successful people as bad in order to divide and distract. He timed his anti-business/anti-successful people narrative with the Occupiers however, the Occupier thing fizzled out. Obama has failed to address Americans top three concerns throughout these last four years which are jobs, the economy and reining in debt/deficit spending.
Instead we have the following:
-Higher National debt = $15.6 trillion
-Jobless = 12 to 14 million Americans jobless. For three straight years, only 58.5% of our population is working compared to 63% pre-recession.
-Low Business Investment = 11.5% of GDP
(At full employment back in 2007 = 16%)
-Higher Deficits = $1.3 trillion projected this year
- Stagnate Economic Growth = 3% in 2011, 1.7% in 2011 and estimated to be 2.0% this year. GDP growth needs to be at least 3.2% just to provide jobs for new entrants in a rising population.
- No Serious Economic Plan(Obama Budgets in 2011 & 2012 did not get one single Republican/Democrat vote the last two years)
- An Obama Class Warfare Tax Plan to raise taxes failed miserably, more picking of winners/losers via the tax code that Americans despise. All other tax plans, including Obama's own debt commission, Simpson-Bowles, suggest to lower tax rates.
- Obama's two biggest legislative accomplishments were the passage of his $831 billion economic stimulus package and his $1.8 trillion health care law. Last month, a Washington Post-ABC News poll found that only 31% of Americans believe his "economic program" made things better, compared with 67% who said it had "no real effect" or even made conditions worse.
- Obama's approach is dividing America with the Occupiers who are anti-business, anti-capitalist,anti-authority, anti-police, anti-business, anti-bank, anti-big oil, anti-wealthy, anti-military/guns and anti-state rights.
American voters know they made a mistake electing a former community organizer as President. Americans long for a better, more prosperous America.
More nonsense and erratic points of view.
Vernos; there has been more than a few issues that I have agreed with you. However, your letter to the editor this time is "Way" over the line.
Let me ask you, when George W. Bush was President, did he take away food stamps and welfare distributions? Did he stop the teachings in public schools against Christian values and ban evolutionary lectures in public schools? No, he did not.
Surely President Bush made mistakes. Just as well, President Obama has made mistakes. I've certainly never been a fan of former President George W. Bush and previous Vice President Dick Cheney. However, I'm sick and tired of hearing Democrats call them "war criminals", amongst an array of other slanderous names.
If one side asks for respect from the other, they, in-turn themselves, have to provide respect to their opponents, as well.
You know you Democrats took a man who stood in the midst of "ground zero" in New York right after the 911 attacks with tears running down his face and vowed to the American people retaliation and revenge on those responsible who committed these atrocious acts. Yes, he made mistakes. But, like I've said previously about not agreeing with President Obama's politics, "his heart is in the right place". As well, so was George W. Bush's heart.
I don't appreciate your snide attitude where you write, "Do you still own your guns and Bibles? Did the government take your weapons to arm President Barack Obama's secret military? Are communists in control of our government? Did Obama ban right-wing radio? Did Obama really cancel the National Day of Prayer?"
Well, I got news for you, I carry a Bible, and I carry a gun. I have a right to my freedom of religion, and a right to bear arms.
Don't expect any form of respect from us gun toting Christians until you "tax assessing, socialistic spending atheists" give us the respect we deserve, as Americans. We will fight you every inch of the way.
If your wondering why an Independent voter is speaking this way, wake up!!! Most Independent voters are Bible carrying gun owners. We could make the difference, or have a big say so in who gets elected this time to the White House.
Obama Fear mongering got us the squandered stimulus
Obama fear mongering got us an inept Dodd-Frank
Obama fear mongering got use the bankrupting Obamacare mandate
We are afraid of the future because Obama has given America higher 25% underemployed, $16 trillion in debt, un ending wars, thousand of new regulations smothering small business,
Obama is running on a war against women, against success, against business, against freedom.
Obama is running a war against Americans that are conservative
Maybe the bible carrying gun owners should put down the gun and read what's in the damn book once in a while.
RE Freeman:
"Obama has failed to address Americans' top three concerns throughout these last four years which are "
That warrants editing, as regularly happens, another Republican has claimed to speak for all "Americans."
It should simply say:
Obama has failed to address Republicans' top three concerns throughout these last four years...
History has repeatedly shown Republican politicians incapable, but is it really that difficult for Republican party members to present honest arguments, or are the really trying to mislead people?
How about Dimbotards trying to repeal the first amendment?
"The phrase "stunning development" is used far too often in our politics, but here is an item that can be described in no other way: Nancy Pelosi and congressional Democrats, frustrated by the fact that the Bill of Rights interferes with their desire to muzzle their political opponents, have proposed to repeal the First Amendment."
That is precisely what the so-called People's Rights Amendment would do. If this amendment were to be enacted, the cardinal rights protected by the First Amendment -- free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom to petition the government for redress of grievances -- would be redefined and reduced to the point of unrecognizability.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/2...
All filler and fake, letter writer. Liberal spin, plain and simple.
The real test of Obama's worthiness of his presidency is his record. It's abominal. The US is on a precipice to disaster similar to Europe. Obama's failed policies and weak leadership. All the polls reflect the Americans disaproval of the direction the country has been and is still going. ALL regardless of the source. Can't fool Americans.
Lincoln said it best: You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of time, BUT you can't fool all of the people all of time.
American people voted for and gave Obama 4 years to lead, 2 of which with a Democratic House and Senate. Result: Obamacare. Jobs and the economy STILL in dire straits with worst deficits and debt in US history.
Time for change. And Nov 2012 is the time.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Dennis, of course, you are entitled to your opinions. And, we've both come to respect our sometimes opposing views.
However, if you think Democratic presidents have not walked on the Constitution, read the now declassified "Pentagon Papers" from the Watergate scandal. The majority of these disgraceful acts that originated from the Oval Office that related to the Vietnam war were from the Truman, Kennedy and Johnson presidencies.
And yes, it was true that Nixon was stupid in listening to Henry Kissinger's advice to go after Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked these papers to the press. Kissinger believed that although the Pentagon Papers was an embarrassment on mostly the Democrats, he convinced Nixon that if he did not act on the leak of these papers, the White House under his administration would not be able to keep secrets from going public.
In present day, I like both President Obama and candidate Romney for different reasons. Like I said, respect, your heart being in the right place, although there are political differences. I'm more apt to agree with Romney's political agenda, but still personally like and respect President Obama.
This is the way it should be. However, I will NOT tolerate any author of a letter to the editor making spiteful and unkind insinuations about my freedom of religion, and rights to bear arms.
V tell Obama - It's the economy , and we're are not stupid.
Cognastics states "RE Freeman:"Obama has failed to address Americans' top three concerns throughout these last four years which are "
That warrants editing, as regularly happens, another Republican has claimed to speak for all "Americans."
It should simply say:
Obama has failed to address Republicans' top three concerns throughout these last four years...
Reply: Poll after poll show economic issues to be Americans main concerns but if you just want to make these worries strictly Republican only then be my guest Cognastics.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/153485/econom...
The title to Vernos letter should have been 'Stop the Fear Mongering on Both Sides' because each side does it, too many of us participate and it damages all of us.
Many Americans intuitively know that we could solve our immigration issues, we could reign in our spending, we could re-write the income tax code to make it more fair and so everyone pays something and we could do all the other things we need to do. They also know it would be tough to do these things and we'd disagree on how to do them.
My fear and that of a growing number of Americans I think, isn't a fear of President Obama or a President Romney. It is instead a gnawing fear that neither man will lead and take the big steps needed to right our economy and our nation.
We have a President and a candidate that are doing what Vernos and others on both sides do; tell us that we are all doomed if 'fill in the blank' is elected President. NO! We are doomed no matter who is elected President if we give in to the fear mongering and allow Congress to remain an armed camp and not compromise.
Another term of Obama will be a disaster if Congress remains deadlocked. A first term of Romney will be a disaster if Congress remains deadlocked. We've already had former President Bush be frustrated with Congress and therefore work to expand executive power and now we have Obama doing so. Romney will do it too if he becomes President and Congress remains deadlocked.
I lean more right than left, especially economically so I favor Romney, but if he isn't going to 'lead' and to me that means 'compromise to get stuff done, I don't want him. You can argue all you want that Obama has compromised but sorry... neither side has compromised enough.
We ... all of us need to stop fear mongering, show our frustration and anger at both sides for getting little of consequence done and we need to demand much better from our President and our Congress.
If we don't, the fear mongerers will be partly correct, only the fall we take won't be because we selected A or B, it will be because we allowed both A and B to place themselves above what is best for the country and all of us.
Michael
"A first term of Romney will be a disaster if Congress remains deadlocked. "
Romney will win. House will remain GOP. Senate will pick up 10 more GOP seats from the Dems giving GOP the Senate too. History making legislation will pass in the first two years with bi-partisan support reforming tax system and entitlements. Gas prices will go down. Fed monetary policy, after a new Chief is appointed, will strengthen the dollar here and abroad. Debt and deficits will turn downward for the first time in a decade. All thanks to the wisdom of the American voters.
After the above is accomplished, Romney and Congress will tackle health care reform. It's called prioritizing. That's what leaders do and Romney will.
Carmine A. DiFazio
PS: Pelosi and Reid will retire and write their memoirs and blame everything on Obama. Obama will do the same and blame Reid and Pelosi. Typical. Clinton will retire to private life and make the speech tour critiquing the Obama years and how they gave rise to a GOP landslide ion 2012. Her message will be: You should have nominated me in 2008. She and her husband will try to save the Dem party from oblivion. Good luck with that.
Vernos,
More one-sided pablum from you. Honestly, you have not been truthful with us, and more importantly, you have not been truthful with yourself. My only hope for our society is that there are fewer of your ilk rather than more.
Purgatory
Dennis,
Good for you and yes I agree that more people should get involved. However, voting wisely and not via the fear mongering done by both sides is also important. As I've said in the past regarding Congress, vote R or D as you like, but when the incumbent comes up for re-election, ignore it when he or she says I could not get anything done due to the other side, and vote for someone else. The claim may be true but if we re-elect these people, we ensure we'll get the same excuse next time.
Michael
The Obama Dept of Labor is now preventing kids from working on the family farm. The sheeple desperately need more government!
Can't the Dept Of Labor just go on convention or buy hookers like other federal agencies?
So much of the media coverage is misguided and lacks priority. Like covering various Senators spouting about Secret Service problems. Give them a chance to deal with it internally before covering, over and over and over, the same noisy Senators outraged and demanding explanations. Ya think while you're talking to the Senators you could ask why they can't get around to DOING THEIR JOBS? Like ENDING deficit spending. Paying down the national debt. Securing our borders. Expelling illegals. Dealing with employers of 7 million illegals in non-agricultural jobs. That last one would SOLVE THE U.S. UNEMPLOYMENT ISSUE. And that would allow our economy to recover. Stop expecting us to forfeit our retirements, net worth, and futures for our children and grandchildren because you want to play big daddy to the "world."
ahh, you people. it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad. anyone who buys either party line hook, line, and sinker isn't even worth listening to.
as someone who doesn't like either candidate, i think its funny that people think Romney has a chance. the only thing that could change that is if something outrageous (and proven to be true....) happens with Obama. otherwise, its 4 more years of Obama.
Stop the "fear mongering" the leftwing kooks now tell us. Of course these were the same yahoo's that whined about George Bush cancelling the constitution and packing everyone off to concentration camps who didn't go along with the "war on terror".
Ah, those dastardly Republicans are going to kick granny into the streets and strip the "poor" of what little they have. Yeah, "fear mongering" is alive and well judging by this letter.
Enjoyed the letter, Vernos. You nailed it.
But Tea/Republicans all throughout this great nation only have that to work with. They love to fearmonger. And if they can't fearmonger, then they will just buy the elections to put their knuckleheads in power.
But there is one thing they don't have.
They don't have the message.
They clearly don't stand up for the average everyday working people.
THIS is what will lead to the Republican Party coming back down to the earth and practicing the conservatism they are known for.
THIS will help them to remove this stupid Tea Party infection with the impossible-to-attain Ayn Rand ideals and their idiocy of taking their country back....taking it back to somewhere around 1809.
The Tea/Republican message is foul smelling. It offers me nothing. It offers no one I know of anything that's worth something of any value at all. It only focuses on the rich, the filthy rich and the wannabe rich. NOBODY ELSE.
Get ready for a spanking on November 6, 2012. All indications show this current formation of the Tea/Republican Party is going to go the way of the Edsel.
Everything they have recently done is boot people away from them.
First, it's Latinos. They expend more effort on painting them all, even the American citizens, as illegal immigrants. To fit their dumb message to scare white people.
And women? Oh my God! For a woman to vote for a Tea/Republican is the same thing as a deer asking for an extension to hunting season. Not gonna happen.
And just yesterday, it's students. Tea/Republicans want them to pay more and more and more and more for college so that they can languish and languish and languish in splendor more and more and more and most and most. This stance shows they don't want education. They want for America to fail, all in order so they can make money, and screw everybody else.
Tea/Republicans only care about themselves. Nobody else.
I will begin my comments with another, different Eisenhower's quote to show how far the toxic right wing has infected the minds of people who spew their venom here:
"Today in America, unions have a secure place in our industrial life. Only a handful of reactionaries harbor the ugly thought of breaking unions and depriving working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice. I have no use for those -- regardless of their political party -- who hold some vain and foolish dream of spinning the clock back to days when organized labor was huddled, almost as a hapless mass. Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice." --Dwight D. Eisenhower
You anti-democrat, anti Obama sycophants have finally been exposed for what and who you are. This is who you are:
"I have been trying to figure who or what in American History these retardlican/extreme white winger/dictator wannabee/teabagger/George Zimmerman wannabees seem to have as their role models and while the Klan, the robber Barons, Birchers, etc. seem like potential choices for the mindset of the rabid posters here I have settled on who it is they most closely emulate.
It is the British circa 1775. They think they own America, do not care to include us in their discussions other than to dictate what they think is the "Their way or the highway" doctrine."
You guys ran on jobs and the economy in 2010, what we got was abortion and contraceptive restrictions and union busting and hatred of teachers. When the current day republican returns to the realm of sanity and echoes both Susan and Dwight Eisenhower, I will rejoin that party.
I don't want to be associated with strangers who think they can dictate what goes on between my wife and her doctor, or people who are too dimwitted to see the beauty of unions.
"If capitalism is fair then unionism must be. If men have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men to capitalize their labor." -- Frank Lloyd Wright
We will have our tea party against you selfish people, either at the ballot box, the cash register, or in the streets. We will not have you in our wives crotches making our families genital decisions.
We won't back down.
"They clearly don't stand up for the average everyday working people."
And Obama does? When is Obama going to get the economy going and get those 12 to 14 million jobless Americans back working again? Three years of only 58.5% of our population working. Pre-recession 63% were working. Face the facts Colin, Obama's anti-business approach clearly isn't helping the average working American.
Fellow Commenters,
As I have stated previously, my only hope for our society is that there are fewer of your (Vernos) ilk rather than more.
Jeff and Colin and their total lack of logic, reason, and understanding coupled with extreme vitriol cause me to lose hope.
Purgatory
RefNV:
With yer buddy Willard winning he has said that he expects working class families to hold 2-3 jobs at a time to make ends meet (He means he won't pay you enough in your primary job to pay your bills) and George Bush famously thought of how American it was a mother was working 3 jobs.
Yeah, we have had a recession. A lot of people are out of work. There are no factories to re-open. Your friends have set these factories up in China, bulldozed the factories, put up cheap housing they sold for 350k per house (Sometimes more, sometimes less) pocketed the cash, the bottom dropped out of housing, the mortgages are foreclosed on and there is now a semi ghost town in many areas of the country. That money is now sittin next to Willard's in a Swiss bank account.
Obama is not the boogeyman here, you and your ilk are.
Pure genius on you guys part, pure genius.
Comment removed by moderator. Refers to removed comment.
The black helicopter crowd has always been with us. But when a US congressman yells, "You lie!" during the president's State of the Union speech a line has been crossed.
Obama Derangement Syndrome has spread from loons on the fringe to infect mainstream conservatives and continues unabated. How long before another Timothy McVeigh-type government hater does the unspeakable again?
bchap, Your post response pertaining to the letter writers comments. Shows your independence as a person who votes for the person and not necessarily the party.Independent thinking and voting is a clear way as to not have to respond to name calling and placing one's full support for a particular party. After all, what we all want is for a prosperous and healthy America for all it's people. Choice is a great thing to have.
Lmao, your article should be directed at the liberals. Liberals seek nothing more than to further their sick agenda along with feeding their mindless trolls rhetoric dung with fear mongering.
Here we have the "kettle calling the pot black." What have the Dumbocrats to offer the American public besides fear? Osama Obama cannot run on his record and win so we see little discussion on that score from him and his fellow travelers. It's all about nonsense. Mitt was correct when he called it, "distraction, deflection and distortion." Keep up the good work in Crook County, IL., dipstick. We all know how well politics works there. The dead vote early & often in Crook County. Corruption and greed wins the day in Crook County. We certainly have enough of that in our politics, we don't need to import more from Crook County, IL.
BChap said: "Let me ask you, when George W. Bush was President, did he take away food stamps and welfare distributions? Did he stop the teachings in public schools against Christian values and ban evolutionary lectures in public schools? No, he did not."
I don't recall any of those fears being pushed when Bush was running for president.
As to the "war criminals," condoning and allowing torture does indeed make one a war criminal.
"As to the "war criminals," condoning and allowing torture does indeed make one a war criminal."
Then so should killing an American with a drone as Obama did.
We've gone from a president with the lowest approvals in modern times (Bush) to a Congress with the lowest polls numbers ever. What do these two have in common? Both are products of the misguided, incompetent Party of No.
Bin Laden is in hell where he belongs and General Motors is the world's leading automaker again. What do these two things have in common? REAL presidential leadership, that's what.
The president was campaigning on our dime again, this time promising free stuff to the children in college. It's easier than discussing their bleak job prospects.
JeffFromVegas,
Pay increases happen more frequently and with greater magnitude in a thriving economy, a fact obviously you and Obama seem to be unaware of. Getting the economy going helps the unemployed, helps those currently employed and brings in much needed tax revenue. Jeff, unfortunately, Obama's had nearly four years to get the economy growing again but obviously lacks the know how to do it. Obama's anti-business approach is just not working out.
Yeah Purgatory, using Dwight Eisenhower, his grand daughter, and Frank Loyd Wright as guideposts to civility in America makes me and the other Great Americans, like Colin, Frank, dipstick, and Vernos out of touch with reality and you guys are the sane middle class. Uh huh, sure ;)
GM is alive and Osama died, authorized by a guy with the middle name of Hussein.
And you guys are worried about planned parenthood.
Pathetic, blindingly pathetic.
Here's another "radical" who has a national holiday named after him:
"History is a great teacher. Now everyone knows that the labor movement did not diminish the strength of the nation but enlarged it. By raising the living standards of millions, labor miraculously created a market for industry and lifted the whole nation to undreamed of levels of production. Those who attack labor forget these simple truths, but history remembers them." Martin Luther King Jr.
The fear is real, but it is of economic collapse, crony capitalism, race baiting & ethnic divisiveness, and governmental fraud, waste & abuse. Time to clean house and send the inept, corrupt, and dead weight democrats & bureacrats back home.
CarmineD - "Romney will win. House will remain GOP. Senate will pick up 10 more GOP seats from the Dems giving GOP the Senate too. History making legislation will pass in the first two years with bi-partisan support reforming tax system and entitlements. Gas prices will go down."
If you actually believe that, you are setting yourself up for a HUGE disappoinment. With complete control and the war mongering attitude by right wingers, I can guarantee we will be involved in another war and our foreign relationships will regress to the Bush days. Oil prices will rise if we attack Iran or Yemen. If anything close to the Ryan budget is passed there will be civil unrest, you can bank on it.
Wheh you people begin to realize our economy shifted from manufacturing to banking, then, and only then can it be fixed. What happened in Europe can be attributed to American banks dumping toxic asstes in those banks.
With the help of SCOTUS by passing Citizens United, we are losing our democracy to plutocracy.
1. the rule or power of wealth or of the wealthy.
2. a government or state in which the wealthy class rules.
3. a class or group ruling, or exercising power or influence, by virtue of its wealth.
Here's a chart for the dimwitted, maybe they can see reality with their own eyes once in a decade or so:
http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/im...
The red lines in the graph are the Bush admin, the blue the Obama admin (this graph is private sector jobs only, not government jobs like the census which skewed the numbers). These results during the great recession are not spectacular and need improvement for sure.
But we are making progress.
If we let labor in the room as equal partners you will see a huge influx of jobs, if you keep using the Romneyfication of our country we will have Americans being the illegal aliens in China mowing their lawns.
JeffFromVegas,
We need GDP growth of 3.2% each year just to employ new entrants from our growing population. Our GDP growth has been 3% in 2011, 1.7% in 2011 and is estimated to be 2.0% this year. It's simply not enough to get the 12 to 14 million jobless Americans back to work. American voters can either vote for Obama and a continuation of policies causing our anemic job growth or go with Romney who has business experience and knows the certainty that businesses require from government to make long-term business investments which is needed to grow our economy. 70% of our economy is derived from the private sector. We tried the Obama stimulus and went from 60.2% of the population working pre-stimulus to 58.5% post-stimulus where it sits today. Obama's plan to grow the economy just didn't work.
Vernos, the letter writer states "With the help of SCOTUS by passing Citizens United, we are losing our democracy to plutocracy.
1. the rule or power of wealth or of the wealthy.
2. a government or state in which the wealthy class rules.
3. a class or group ruling, or exercising power or influence, by virtue of its wealth."
The title of Vernos' letter is 'Stop the Fear Mongering' yet he practices it himself. Double-standard Vernos?
RefNV:
Your idealism is choked by reality. The Romney plan is whenever and wherever possible Strip (a company of all of its individual uniqueness), Rip (apart families and communities), and export (as many of the jobs as possible in every company. Yes. Vote Romney, Strip, Rip and Export, the NEW American way!
Here are some examples of companies he couldn't send the jobs overseas with:
Many workers at Staples, Sports Authority, and Domino's Pizza earn wages below the poverty line for a family of three. Sales associates at Staples make an average of $8.49 per hour, and sales associates at Sports Authority make an average of $8.96 per hour, according to Glassdoor.com, a site which tracks wages at 150,000 companies. Altogether, that amounts to less than $19,000 per year. These wages are less than the average in those industries, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Workers at Domino's and Bright Horizons, which Romney helped turn around at Bain, don't make much either. Delivery drivers at Domino's earn an average of $7.66 per hour, according to Glassdoor.com, which adds up to less than $16,000 per year. Teachers at Bright Horizons make an average of $12.94 per hour, according to Glassdoor.com, amounting to about $27,000 per year.
Meanwhile, Romney enriched himself while leading Bain Capital, amassing a fortune of more than $200 million, which translates to roughly $6,400 an hour.
When Mitt Romney and Bain Capital got their hands on Domino's Pizza they indeed made changes. Although the drivers foot the bill for gas they instituted a delivery charge they did not give the drivers. In fact, because many costumers believed the charge goes to the drivers it actually costs their drivers huge money in tips.
If it stopped there it would not be as bad. Domino's Pizza went one step further. After paying their drivers minimum wage for decades, when the last minimum wage increase went through most Domino's stores also quit paying their drivers minimum wage and began making them claim tips to make up the difference. Tips Domino's already steals from off the top with the delivery charge and were long understood to be compensation for the damage done to the drivers vehicles, the insurance costs and the gas they must pay for out of their own pockets.
In other words under Bain Capital Domino's Pizza could not stand to steal from their drivers just once. They stole not only their tips, but their hourly wages too. All of this for the people that did all the hard, dangerous work to build a multi-million dollar corporation.
Mitt Romney and the vultures at Bain Capital teamed with the thieves at Domino's Pizza simply could not wait to rob their costumers and their workers blind. That is the real Romney vision for jobs. Jobs that keep millions in poverty while men like Mitt Romney make out like bandits by stealing wages from the people that do the actual work.
"This is my last election ... After my election I have more flexibility," - President Obama
That all by itself is more than enough cause for fear. I am starting to wonder if Presidents should be limited to only a single term in order to stop this. Allow them to serve twice, but not consecutive terms.
There have been 47 recessions. One great recession. The current one. We have a mature economy with an aging population. The 3% to 4% GDP growth that Mr. Freeman wants will be hard to come by. Construction needs to pick up dramatically for that to happen. In addition we have an entitlement explosion due to retiring baby boomers and millions lining up for Medicaid because they cant afford our ludicrous medical prices.
Pisces41...your 0409 post is one of the best I have seen. Over a million gun deaths in the last 40 years and god knows how much in wasted medical dollars on those killed and injured.
Violence is a partial cause of our reduced life expectancy and the average gunshot wound cost 17K with 40% of victims uninsured. Gun owners SHOULD read the bible and take a break from shooting each other.
"....you are just as deluded as carmen."
Delusionary is what those who don't know any better call those who do!
----------------------------------------------------
"If you actually believe that, you are setting yourself up for a HUGE disappoinment."
If I didn't, I would be wrong and you right. You are as wrong as wrong can be. The Dems will suffer their worst defeat in the history of their political party in Nov 2012. My suggestion is not to donate any money to Democratic candidates. Your return on your money will be the same as if you gave it to another Dem: Bernie Madoff.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Anyone who thinks a president can change the economic variables that I have noted above is dreaming. Every developed country is suffering from entitlement issues and slower than trend growth.
If Mccain and Palin were in the big house the numbers would be roughly the same. If Romney gets in the trends will continue. This is a 40-50 year problem and will end when the baby boomers croak and medical cost containment is reached.
botfx:
That problem will exist even more-so in a one term presidency. Now the first 4 years a president is kind of forced to keep a majority in place in a first term (Carter did his "More flexibility" in his first term and never got a second one). If the American people trust you you will get a second term. It sounds like you think he would be evil not having to worry about reelection. I think the evil of a Romney first term (his shifting core --think Romneycare and being pro-abortion) is much more potentially evil.
If you don't believe me that a potential for disaster is awaiting us all follow the US Catholics and their leadership. Plus read the link at the bottom as must read homework:
"Now Catholic scholars from Georgetown University are also taking Ryan to the woodshed with their own sternly worded letter signed by a dozen Georgetown Jesuit priests and members of several departments:
"Our problem with Representative Ryan is that he claims his budget is based on Catholic social teaching," said Jesuit Father Thomas J. Reese, one of the organizers of the letter. "This is nonsense. As scholars, we want to join the Catholic bishops in pointing out that his budget has a devastating impact on programs for the poor." [...]
"I am afraid that Chairman Ryan's budget reflects the values of his favorite philosopher Ayn Rand rather than the gospel of Jesus Christ," said Father Reese. "Survival of the fittest may be okay for Social Darwinists but not for followers of the gospel of compassion and love.""
Here is homework: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontif...
JeffFromVegas,
Unfortunately, Staples, Sports Authority, and Domino's Pizza are not going to offer big paying jobs. Take Domino's, they have tons of competition. Are you saying Domino's should offer a $20.00 per hour wage? Do you want to pay $7.99 for a pizza or $18.00 dollars? By the way, the website you referenced, glassdoors.com, is a site that lists one-sided complaints, meaning, you only hear the poster's complaint and can never be validated, hardly a source for accurate reporting.
Lets face the facts Jeff, higher unions costs drove manufacturing companies overseas in order for companies to stay cost competitive with domestic and world markets. Unfortunately American and worldwide consumers factor product price in their purchasing decision. In the 1950's, unions were present in 35% of the private sector now its around 7% so the trend is downward. Larry Summers, Obama's former National Economic Director in his book titled "The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics" concluded that unions cause long-term unemployment. Here is an excerpt:
"Another cause of long-term unemployment is unionization. High union wages that exceed the competitive market rate are likely to cause job losses in the unionized sector of the economy. Also, those who lose high-wage union jobs are often reluctant to accept alternative low-wage employment. Between 1970 and 1985, for example, a state with a 20 percent unionization rate, approximately the average for the fifty states and the District of Columbia, experienced an unemployment rate that was 1.2 percentage points higher than that of a hypothetical state that had no unions. To put this in perspective, 1.2 percentage points is about 60 percent of the increase in normal unemployment between 1970 and 1985".
Jeff- the United States can't control the world's labor wages. Higher union rates adversely affect the competitiveness of American companies in both the domestic and global markets. Additionally, government unions are bankrupting city/state governments. Just look at the problems california is having. See the link below. Unfunded union pensions are causing California cities to go bankrupt and cut services.
http://www.pensiontsunami.com/
zippert1,
If I am not mistaken, heart disease is the number one killer in our country. Based on my own experience I would guess the average cost for a blocked artery to be between $100k and $200k. It may sound cynical, but $17k is a bargain in some respects.
JeffFromVegas,
The difference in Obama's budget, which was unanimously rejected by both Republicans and democrats, and Simpson-Bowles/Ryan Plan is the growth rate of spending. We notice that you didn't pick out the issues you have with either the Ryan budget or Simpson-Bowles so you must not be well versed in the details. The bottom line is, Obama has no economic plan, he couldn't even get his own party to agree with his plan. He has let the economy slide, going from 3% in 2011, to 1.7% in 2011 and now is estimated to be 2.0% this year. Meanwhile, only 58.5% of our population is working which is well below the 63% that are working during full employment. Obama just can't get the economy going and he's had 4 years to do it. It's time for a leadership change.
Etch a Sketch Mitt is all things to all wealthy men. If his prayers to LDS angel Moroni are answered and he takes the steering wheel, the middle class will be treated like Seamus the family dog. We'll be riding on the car's roof while he and the elite 1% enjoy a comfortable seat inside.
Mitt's not concerned abut the very poor because he doesn't have time to be since he's always on his knees making sure the super-rich stay satisfied.
refNV:
Your assertions are clueless and I don't have the time to educate you. I will give you credit for being loyal to your cause, but other than that it is you and your followers mindset that has made our country what it currently has become.
An example, how much funding are you willing to put into bridge re-fortification? Anything more than a dollar makes you at odds with republicans.
If Dems favor 500 Billion dollars for this, what dollar amount can you live with?
Last Throes!
If Willard was to beat Hussein, and he forgets his magic underwear when being sworn in are we doomed as a country?
CarmineD - "The Dems will suffer their worst defeat in the history of their political party in Nov 2012."
You missed my point, maybe I didn't express it well enough. It wasn't about winning the White House and Congress, my point was about the after effects if that occured.
Republicans haven't changed their agenda in forty years. Why would anyone believe they wouldn't do exactly what they've done before? They didn't learn from the 1929 Great Depression and this great recession is almost parallel to what Wall St. did in 1929.
The right isn't conservative. Conservatism by definition would be preserving or maintaining what is, status quo. A better word would be regressive, attempting to return to those days prior to 1930.
LastThroes,
Presidents don't have authority over private company pay. I know you want government control over pay but it ain't gonna happen even with Obama. The employed and unemployed need a thriving economy. Romney has plans to grow our economy and he understands business. Obama, unions and occupiers are not in a position to hire, businesses are. Romney understands businesses and the certainty they need to invest long-term which is a major reason why we lack job growth today.
JeffFromVegas states "Your assertions are clueless and I don't have the time to educate you."
This statement from you doesn't make any sense. You must not like defending Obama's economic record. You're reaching for anything to demagogue the opposing party's nominee in order to avoid discussing Obama's record. You knew this day would come Jeff. You have to defend an indefensible record. Distract-distract-distract.
If you equate illness due to the aging process with youngsters blowing each other to pieces than I agree with you. Hospitals have to deal with so many gunshot wounds they have gotten good at it and do it at a reasonable cost. Do we really want to deal with and pay for tens of thousands of gunshot wounds a year. Some say yes. I say waste of money.
There have only been a couple million jobs outsourced in the last 15 years. Not a huge issue.
A bigger issue. America is a VERY expensive place to live. Our economy is over 70% consumption and it drives the economic engine. People need good $$$$ to be able to afford $2500.00 Apple Powerbooks and $70K Cadillac's. My first car was a 73 Pontiac Grand Prix SJ 455. Cost About 6K. My wife's BMW more than a house.
Serious wealth creation doesn't even begin until families make over $250K. This according to the medical industry which sues millions of folks. If companies want our consumers to buy the crap they make they better start coughing up the big $$$$$$$$$$.
You save in labor outsourcing to China but high unemployment and stagnant wage growth reduces aggregate consumption. Walmart came out with 4 buck generic drugs years ago because people were leaving the store after getting prescriptions filled.They are a victim of medical cost inflation. Not good for business. They have thousands of items to move.
RefNV
Obama has been a major disappointment to me. He has tried to accommodate your point of view -- while giving up too much and getting nothing in return. We can barely contain you retardlican/extreme white winger/dictator wannabee/teabagger/George Zimmerman wannabees now when you have about 12-15% of the country who is nearly similar to you.
Electing Romney would just encourage you. I have outlined my feelings about Romney at length here. Maybe try reading lessons?
Face it, you line up with the Anti-Jesus party.
The only goods that many (most?) people can afford anymore are the ones on Walmart shelves imported from China. Until something is done to increase the demand for American labor in manufacturing we are true and welly screwed.
I have seen nothing from Obama that addresses this. The trade agreements he has put through benefit our "partners" immediately but provisions that may help us won't kick in for five years.
One of the reasons I liked Huntsman was he has extensive knowledge of our relations with China. I'd really like to see Romney pick him for VP, it might get my vote if he did.
When I was studying Econ at UCLA in the late 70s when we were just starting to lose the garment and steel businesses primarily on the east coast. The prevailing wisdom was that those losing jobs would go back to school, learn modern skills and re enter the labor force at high wage rates.
Never really happened. These regions are still suffering 35 years later. Crime, poverty and welfare have taken the place of these industries. The fact that low paying service jobs have became the nations largest explains the welfare explosion. Welfare is income based.
With the average Walmart worker making 11 bucks an hour its no wonder they have 300,000 getting welfare assistance. Welfare has closed the wage and benefit gap that the private sector used to handle.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/pf/emerg...
Many companies are already starting to talk about coming back. Statistics like the one above scare the hell out of big business. Expensive items need the American consumer. Without us the are KAPUT.
Zippert/Gerry:
It is worth noting in conjunction with your post that the way that WalMart seduced its way into American communities was by the fact that its inventory was "Made In The USA"
From the esteemed writer Jim Hightower:
April 26, 2000
"Walk into a Wal-Mart store, and you can see banners that proclaim, "Our Nation: Supporting the American Manufacturers that support American jobs." For customers, this is a heartwarming declaration by the country's largest retailer that it is, By God, a 100-percent, Red-White-and-Blue company, offering a store full of Made-in-America goods.
Only, it's a lie.
An investigative report recently released by the National Labor Committee put the lie to Wal-Mart's marketing hype. This corporate watchdog group sent investigators into Wal-Mart stores in 13 states to check the country-of-origin on private-label goods manufactured for Wal-Mart.
Some 90,000 pieces of clothing and shoes were examined. Bottom line: 85 percent of them are NOT American made. Even worse, most come from factories in the world's garment ghettos, where subpoverty wages, dangerous working conditions, and human exploitation are common.
Take the famous "Kathie Lee" line of women's clothing -- the most popular label sold by Wal-Mart. These goods bear the name of TV sparklie Kathie Lee Gifford, who made a widely-publicized pledge to avoid sweatshop production just two years ago. Yet, only 11 percent of her Wal-Mart garments have a Made-in-the-US label in them today, while 89 percent come from such notorious sweatshop hellholes as China..."
JeffFromVegas states "Electing Romney would just encourage you."
I'm not worried about me. I'm worried about the 12 to 14 million jobless Americans seeing them lose hope these last 4 years. Like I said, Obama, unions and Occupiers don't hire, businesses do. Obama has aligned himself with those who won't help jobless Americans get a job. It's time for a leader who will get our economy going and who will work with all business sectors.
Name one business leader that supports Romney that has said he would hire a SINGLE worker if Romney gets in.
Demand is lax. People don't have money. No need to hire millions of workers.
Jeff,
Weak, very weak. The opposite of your and your ilk is not a right wing nut. Sorry, we libertarian/conservative types don't all lead with Planned Parenthood, The Bible, guns, and the like. Weak.
Purgatory
p.s. As I have asked Vernos multiple times - the main event that has depressed wages in the US was millions of unskilled women entering the labor force. Regardless of societal benefit, what do we do about that? There Jeff, et al., since Vernos has ignored me, take a shot.
botfx said:
"The only goods that many (most?) people can afford anymore are the ones on Walmart shelves imported from China. Until something is done to increase the demand for American labor in manufacturing we are true and welly screwed."
I say:
This is an excellent example of the false equivalency promulgated by the right and extreme right.
The Democrats, the progressives, liberals and a big majority of the non voting public are ready to adopt a blend of tactics, like revised tariffs, public works jobs, tax breaks, etc to make a dent in the 20 million folks who need employment and to solidify the rest of the labor force, because the levels of unemployment now also hurt existing business because consumers are less likely to open their wallets.
If one is being honest, there is one group (with R's behind their names) of people who have blocked these policies and caused our deficits to soar while keeping this 20 million deep labor force off the playing field.
Most of America is ready. It is easy to tell who isn't at the table. They are here posting nonsense. They support the "R's"
JeffFromVegas,
Last I checked, Walmart, nor any other retail business, is required to have all items made in the U.S.A. This is also true with General Motors.
Obama making energy prices "necessarily skyrocket" will drive the rest of manufacturing away. Will he ever connect the dots?
"The Democrats, the progressives, liberals and a big majority of the non voting public are ready to adopt a blend of tactics, like revised tariffs, public works jobs, tax breaks, etc to make a dent in the 20 million folks who need employment"
False. Obama had his chance with the passage of his $831 billion economic stimulus package. We had 60.2% of the population working when it passed and now we have 58.5%, a decrease. Import tariffs will only lead to tariffs on our exports.
You are correct but we should make SOMETHING. I had a SRT Charger and got rid of it when I found out the engine was made in Mexico and Body in Canada. We can't even make our own muscle cars anymore.
At least my wife's X5M is put together in Spartenburg SC.
You have to buy German to get something made here. Something perverse about that.
A great day to all!!!!
Purgatory asked:
"The main event that has depressed wages in the US was millions of unskilled women entering the labor force. Regardless of societal benefit, what do we do about that?"
I do not agree with your comment, but do agree it is an important component of the greater American problem.
Here is my answer to this question: I have not observed a job that cannot be reasonably trained at a reasonable expense that pays under $200,000. I have no problem with giving individual companies and individuals a chance to get a combined tax break provided both parties live up to their agreements. There needs to be a strong inducement that is tied to new employees and not a mechanism to replacing a mature workforce.
In other words, in a common sense way, companies need to play fair. Then I think we begin learning other strategies like offering scholarships in exchange for employment post graduation.
RefNV said:
"Last I checked, Walmart, nor any other retail business, is required to have all items made in the U.S.A. This is also true with General Motors."
I say:
Nothing, can't stop laughing...
I'm not sure where Jeff sees a "false equivalency" in my statement.
I have for years, decades even, called for a new tariff structure. Unfortunately, we (and now China) are part of the WTO and our hands are tied.
My position is this: no amount of service sector jobs can make up for the loss of manufacturing jobs. I'm not opposed to infrastructure jobs, but it must be realized that construction jobs by definition are temporary. (And please, it is simple to check how much of the stimulus was spent on infrastructure, not nearly enough!)
One of my major complaints about Obama is that about one month after he was sworn in he said not only are manufacturing jobs not going to come back, but that we did not need or want them to come back. Not only was that a terrible thing to say at the time, but it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the root causes of the Great Recession.
JeffFromVegas states "Nothing, can't stop laughing..."
Sorry, Jeff, you don't dictate who buys what from where and from whom. :)
botfx:
Sorry about that, I wasn't attacking YOU, just adding to your point in that you and me are willing, the usual right wing wacks here won't show up to even have a conversation.
The false equivalency being that the 2 sides can't agree on anything is not the truth, one side refuses to talk at all.
Such a short letter to the editor, with only 197 words, has generated more than 8100 words of fuss-bucket-n-ruckus-comments? I'd post something myself, but I can't see the point in doing so.
I ca save those on the left and those on the right a lot time. Take your five best arguments for or against the current administration and paste them in a word document. Then just wait for the Las Vegas Sun to post a one sided opinion and BOOM! Cut and paste and you're done for the day. The same people make the same argument ad nauseam.
If you read the name of the person writing the comment, you don't need to waste time reading it. There is little new information and everyone has usually already heard/read it through various news sources. Party politics is works like religion and there is little chance of converting anyone no matter how ridiculous you think their ideas are. If you can't convince a human that a snake and a donkey didn't talk, what on earth makes you think you can change their political views?
@dukeofdeath - what snake and donkey was that?
I want to augment my point about Obama's open-mic gaffe.
When he was a candidate in 2008 he said that he was against NAFTA to an extent. At the same time his aide was in Canada telling that government that what Obama said was not his true position. (You can Google this to verify it. It was widely reported.)
Also, again as a candidate, he said he would vote against the Patriot Act. In reality, he voted for it when it came before the Senate again.
Since becoming President he has signed bills that greatly increase the power of the office of the President. Notably, the recent defense spending bill with its provisions.
In short, in many respects Obama has been Bush Lite. This leaves a taste in one's mouth that is not much different than Busch Light and very disappointing coming from one who campaigned on "Hope and Change."
If Obama is like this in his first term, what will he be like if he gets a second and has "more flexibility" as he put it? If not fear, this is certainly cause for concern.
You know, everyone has an opinion about the way things are done and have been done by both sides of the political line. But, our opinions have been about the SMOKE SCREENS both sides have used to cover up the ROOT CAUSE of our country's current woes and the woes of the world:
THE PETRODOLLAR.
After researching, reading, and looking at the facts related to the decisions that have been made "for the people," - it's all based on preserving the PETRODOLLAR.
Everything that has happened since 1973, can be traced back to the creation of the Petrodollar.
Read about it. Open your minds to the fact that we have all been duped. A huge wave of change is coming, and the US will either find a way to preserve its status, (which is usually by war) or we are in for a HUGE tsunami shift in our way of life.
@dukeofdeath - oh, you mean Genesis 3 and Numbers 22, now I get it... took me a moment to rack my brain.
No problems, Jeff. I had something else in the back of my mind when I wrote that opening sentence. My mistake for that, it seems.
Thanks to all of the posts that have some semblance of reality. The rest of you lot, give it a rest.
The baby and her dad (me) have plans, we are outta here...
"Thanks to all of the posts that have some semblance of reality"
You're welcome! :)
Vernos,
You are so sure about what the 'right wing' will do if R's gain control again. What about the fact that neither the right or the left have any detailed and concrete plan to deal with a 15.5 trillion dollar debt and spending that continually outpaces tax revenues by over 1 trillion dollars every year? Doesn't that worry you? It worries me!
Michael
Michael,
How much detail are you expecting? Most budget plans are an outline of objectives in principle that must be achieved. The primary responsibility of the Budget Committee is drafting and preparing the budget setting the aggregate levels of spending and revenue that is expected to occur in a given fiscal year. What further do you want the budget committee to do? The Committee on Appropriations sets the specific expenditures of funds. Are you wanting to know the appropriations of funds? If so, at what detail? Department level?
Michael Casler:
There is a serious budget on the table. The republicans will not let it be considered.
It is called A Budget For ALL:
Our Budget's Top Line
Deficit reduction of $6.8 trillion
Primary spending cuts of $749 billion
Public investment and job creation measures of $2.9 trillion
Debt reduced to 62.3% of GDP by 2022
Comprehensive Economic Recovery Package
Infrastructure Bank
Surface transportation investment (we propose a six-year $556 billion reauthorization bill that, over ten
years, would lead to a $241 billion increase in transportation funding)
Making Work Pay tax credit for 2013 through 2015
More than $2 trillion domestic investment package including:
The Emergency Jobs to Restore the American Dream Act -- School Improvement, Park
Improvement, Student Jobs, Neighborhood Heroes, Health, Community, and Child Care Corps
Widespread domestic investments (see function chart)
Job Creating Initiatives from the President's FY2013 Budget
o Temporary 10 percent tax credit for new jobs and wage increases ($20.8 billion)
o Additional tax credits for investment in advanced energy manufacturing ($3.2 billion)
o National Network of Manufacturing Innovation Institutes ($1 billion)
o Capital access for entrepreneurs and small businesses ($2 million)
o Manufacturing Communities tax credit ($4.3 billion)
o Tax credit for the production of advanced technology vehicles ($1.7 billion)
o Tax credit for alternative-fuel commercial vehicles ($1.7 billion)
o Double the amount of expensed start-up expenditures ($3.1 billion)
o Enhance and make permanent the research and experimentation tax credit ($99.3 billion)
Individual Income Tax Policies
Allow the Bush-era tax cuts to expire for the top 2% of earnings at the end of 2012, while extending
marriage relief, credits, and incentives for children, families, and education.
Allow the 28% and 25% brackets to sunset once the economy is on solid footing, in 2017 and 2019,
respectively. The 10% bracket does not sunset and is extended throughout the 10 year window.
Maintain refundable credits' expansion as outlined in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
(Earned Income Tax Credit, the Child and Dependent Care Credit , and the American Opportunity Tax
Credit)
Index the AMT for inflation for a decade (the AMT patch is fully paid for)
Enact the Fairness in Taxation Act - millionaire and billionaire tax rates proposal (adding 45%, 46%,
47%, 48%, and 49% top rates)
Tax all capital gains and qualified dividends as ordinary income
Repeal the step-up basis for capital gains
Limit the rate at which itemized deductions can reduce tax liability to 28% for high earners
Eliminate the mortgage interest deduction for vacation homes and yachts
Replace the tax exclusion for interest on state and local bonds with a subsidy for the issuer
Enact a high net worth surcharge (0.5% on wealth over $10 million, over 10 years)
End the exclusion for foreign-earned income
Corporate Tax Reform
Eliminate corporate welfare for oil, gas, and coal companies
Enact a financial crisis responsibility fee
Enact a financial speculation tax
Reinstate Superfund taxes
Price carbon pollution together with a robust rebate that holds low and moderate income households
harmless
Close various corporate loopholes that distort true tax liability
Adopt the international tax reforms in the President's FY2013 budget
Health Care
Enact a public option
Allow Medicare to negotiate cheaper prescription drug prices in Part D
Adopt targeted Medicare and Medicaid fraud, waste, and abuse savings from the President's budget while
maintaining all benefits
Adopt the generic prescription drug development and release proposals in the President's budget
Adopt the Narrowing Exceptions for Withholding Taxes (NEWT) Act
Prevent a cut in Medicare physician payments for a decade (the "doc fix" is fully paid for)
End subsidies for junk and fast food advertising to children
Social Security
Eliminate the taxable maximum on the employer and employee side, phased in over 5 years.
Maintain benefit structure, increase benefits based on higher contributions on the employee side
Defense Savings
End overseas contingency operations emergency funding starting in Fiscal Year 2014, providing funding
for a secure redeployment in FY2013
Reduce baseline defense spending by reducing strategic capabilities, including Cold War-era nuclear
weapons and infrastructure, conventional forces, procurement, and end strength
Other Policies
Enact Comprehensive immigration reform
Reduce agriculture subsidies
Adopt public financing of elections
Here is the whole thing:
http://grijalva.house.gov/uploads/Execut...
Jeff,
There's are several reasons why that budget plan won't fly. One, it's a $2.9 trillion union giveaway at tax payer's expense. Second, it won't balance the budget as it takes money away from the private sector economy via higher, even more progressive taxes on those who already pay all the taxes and it doesn't stimulate business investment. Third, any plan with a "financial crisis responsibility fee" would give liberals an unlimited mechanism to ask for even more money from Americans to pay for their liberal spending. And finally, a government stimulus approach was already attempted and failed to grow the economy or create jobs.
You can see just how silly the fear-mongering is from *all* sources by looking at how the President and the Republican candidates compare at Political Compass (you might be surprised!): http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselecti...
I bring this up because there is little basis (if the test is reasonable) for drawing major distinctions between Obama and others. If anything, the chart underscores why a vote of "None of the above" is a reasonable choice if one wishes to express their opinion of where we are at today.
I also suggest that you take the test for yourself: http://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Here is where I scored (which I'm sure will surprise some of you.): http://www.politicalcompass.org/printabl...
Being a politician shouldn't be a career. They should make everyone take apptitude tests and serve one year terms in these positions depending upon their scores. Mandatory like Jury Duty. All these comments are crap. Get lives people.
"You missed my point, maybe I didn't express it well enough."
No, you missed mine.
The American voters are too smart for the Dem spin and what will be. That was the FDR spin. It worked then. Won't now.
Americans know what is, and they disapprove overwhelmingly in all the polls regardless of the sources. They will show their disapproval in Nov 2012 just as they did in 2010. That was the half time. Now, it's a new game.
Obama had 4 years to deliver with two of those years a democratic controlled House and Senate. He wasted them with Obamacare instead of the big problems: jobs and the economy. It's the GOP's turn to deal with jobs and economy. And they will.
Carmine A. DiFazio
"Here is homework: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontif...
Your reference and link is from Blessed John Paul 11 in 2005 on social justice. Of which JP2 wrote many. It doesn't mention the Ryan plan.
While some bishops have issues with the Ryan plan, it's important to note they do not "score" the proposal for costs. They address the proposal from the perspective that money is not an issue. While that may be a Catholic tenet to ensure the common good, unfortunately money always matters. Choices for the common good always have to be prioritized and made. That is what government by the people does.
Carmine A. DiFazio
fear mongering??? President Obama is as guilty as anyone when it comes to fomenting fear. He is stirring up hate when he talks to all those college students about the doubling up on the interest payments for school loans.
I remind the righteous indignant that the Bible and most religions tell their followers to tithe 10 percent of their income. I don't know of any religion, except the Mormons, who actually do. If more did tithe in accordance with the teachings of the Bible and their religions the world would be in a better state of the common good. Thanks to religion not government.
Carmine A. DiFazio
botfx:
Here is mine, right in the sweet spot of righteousness http://www.politicalcompass.org/printabl...
bite:
If no legislation is done soon, it will double, the prez, much as you may not like him has Willard Romney (Mitt's alter ego) on record siding with the prez.
In other words, they are having a bipartisan agreement here.
Carmine:
I like you and never really pick on you because you seem like your rabies are under control (In reference to your republicanism) and you are polite, so I just wanted to say I read your remarks and think you can find what JPII said does cover the fallout of Ryan's plan.
Jeff,
Thanks for posting your results. If you are not that much different from many on the left, it is no wonder that many Democrats are unhappy with Obama.
The only real surprise is why the Democrats haven't told Obama to stand down and let Hillary take it this year. Imagine how they would react if someone started a serious campaign based on Obama being almost politically indistinguishable from Romney? Now *that* would be fear-mongering with some truth in it.
"JPII said does cover the fallout of Ryan's plan."
JP2's Encyclicals cover all social injustices of legislation from the beginning of time. Social legislation is never as good as it can be. And, there's always one more thing that can make it better. In an ideal world, with no restrictions on money, we could and would make it perfect. But, surprise surprise, it is not an ideal world. If it were, all would tithe 10 percent or more of income to their Church and religion. And the common good would be served with no financial assistance needed from government to supplement social welfare. Religions and Churches would do it all.
Carmine A. DiFazio
botfx:
I am from the south side of Chicago.
I have been a community organizer.
I have done business with billionaires.
I have done business in the ghetto of the ghetto.
I have had more money than I ever dreamed of.
I have been 100% broke and needing to stay in a hotel without a permanent address.
I would no more vote for Willard Romney than you would have sex with Mike Tyson.
I have known Mike Royko and he would have already crushed Willard by now.
No more fancypants white guys for president.
I may write in someone, but Willard is awfulness, squared.
BTW, the Catholic Church and the US Conference of Catholic Bishops is against Obamacare. So Dems and Reps are even.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Jeff,
I would never even think to imply that you would vote for Romney! Hell, I have no intention of voting for him as it stands (but if he picked Huntsman for VP the though would cross my mind.)
I was only saying that I think most Democrats who think like you would like to see someone other than Obama carrying the Democrat flag this November. I know that I would vote for Hillary in a heartbeat unless Teddy Roosevelt or Ike were running against her.
As it stands now, I am firmly in the "None of the above" camp. (Though I might have voted for Obama if Santorum was the Republican choice. He is truly scary.)
"There is a serious budget on the table. The republicans will not let it be considered."
Really? There is a democratic controlled Senate under the tutelage of Harry Reid. This budget, and/or similar, has been around since April 2011, over a year. Why aren't the Senate Dems acting on it, or a derivative, and approving and sending it to the House?
Carmine A. DiFazio
Vernos.....Great letter, spot on.
WOW!, your letter brought out every wild-eyed,
extreme right-wing republican, on the planet.
YES, there is nothing republicans hate more than
the truth.
It works everytime.
REPUBLICAN GREED DESTROYED OUR ECONOMY, PERIOD.
THAT'S THE TRUTH.
And greed is still their plan.
Romney will take us right back to the bush mess
only WORSE.
We've already learned that we can NEVER TRUST
REPUBLICANS, THEY LIE.
They still push their anti-union BS on poor
American workers.
Average American workers CAN NEVER AFFORD GREEDY
ANTI-UNION REPUBLICANS AGAIN.
PRESIDENT OBAMA has worked miracles despite
republican obstruction.
PRESIDENT OBAMA is easily the best president in
our lifetime.
AND WE'RE KEEPING HIM!
"PRESIDENT OBAMA is easily the best president in
our lifetime." - teamster
Only if you were born after Clinton left office. Personally, it is a toss-up between Ike and Clinton for my lifetime. (JFK and Reagan get honorable mentions for second place.)
And the bush tax cuts along with unpaid for,
multi-trillion dollar wars were ok with Romney.
Now, mega-rich Romney wants to double down on the
bush tax cuts with even more tax cuts for his
rich friends while cutting programs poor people
need.
What a guy.
Nobody is more out of touch than Romney.
LIVE BETTER/WORK UNION!
boftx......
As much as I like Clinton and JFK, they both tie
for second place to President Obama.
And President Obama will still have four more
years to finish cleaning up the bush/republican
mess.
Have no fear.
And Reagan was anti-union, killed funding for
mental health care hospitals, raised the cost for
college in California and borrowed billions of
dollars that put our country in debt and started
the TRICKLE-DOWN POLICY THAT KILLED OUR MIDDLE
CLASS.
He gets no mention on my list.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis, 1935.
Guns and Bibles go together seamlessly. The Nazi Government was a Church & State affair, where religious ceremonies, like praying before battles, were part of the Government philosophy.
Quote after quote from Hitler's speeches made him sound quite like an Evangelical, as they supported family values, hard work and religion. Those were the Fascist standards in Europe, along with building up the military. Germany was 40% Catholic and 55% Protestant in 1939, but Peace was to come after victory, not Sunday school.
Romney said last year, "God wants America to lead, not follow". They he said he would build up the military. He tells us what god wants and is ready to obey god using the US Military (like Bush).
It's not fear mongering to say that social services like the Dept of Education, Dept of Housing and Urban Development, Medicare and Social Security will be scavenged or terminated to pay for a military build up, because Romney is working for god. Romney's god needs guns, bombs and lots of troops.
A person who believes god has sent them to save America is someone to be feared because the god they pray to has no more power in this Universe than a fast fart in a high wind.
It's the economy SunJon. Scare tactics won't help Obama get re-elected. He'll have to defend his record.
Here we go again.
Everyone pick a side and vent about how the other side isn't doing it's job, instead of demanding that our government do what it is supposed to do: Work together to benefit the country.
The Japanese learned years ago that placing blame will not solve problems, addressing problems will.
When will Americans learn that bickering solves nothing, and will never change anyone's mind? It is a waste of time.
"religion and politics dont mix. good letter jon."
Disagree. This nation was founded because of religious freedom from persecution. And it is still part of every fiber of the US being.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9vQt6IXX...
Carmine A. DiFazio
Carmine:
I think you are wrong about this, Here is some proof:
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RuY5B1T5...
Read this Letter from Thomas Jefferson to a friend of his (It is in an earlier English, not typo's):
Monticello, Sep. 23, 1800
Dear Sir, -- I have to acknolege the receipt of your favor of Aug. 22, and to congratulate you on the healthiness of your city. Still Baltimore, Norfolk & Providence admonish us that we are not clear of our new scourge. When great evils happen, I am in the habit of looking out for what good may arise from them as consolations to us, and Providence has in fact so established the order of things, as that most evils are the means of producing some good. The yellow fever will discourage the growth of great cities in our nation, & I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man. True, they nourish some of the elegant arts, but the useful ones can thrive elsewhere, and less perfection in the others, with more health, virtue & freedom, would be my choice.
I agree with you entirely, in condemning the mania of giving names to objects of any kind after persons still living. Death alone can seal the title of any man to this honor, by putting it out of his power to forfeit it. There is one other mode of recording merit, which I have often thought might be introduced, so as to gratify the living by praising the dead. In giving, for instance, a commission of chief justice to Bushrod Washington, it should be in consideration of his integrity, and science in the laws. and of the services rendered to our country by his illustrious relation, &c. A commission to a descendant of Dr. Franklin, besides being in consideration of the proper qualifications of the person, should add that of the great services rendered by his illustrious ancestor, Bn Fr, by the advancement of science, by inventions useful to man, &c. I am not sure that we ought to change all our names. And during the regal government, sometimes, indeed, they were given through adulation; but often also as the reward of the merit of the times, sometimes for services rendered the colony. Perhaps, too, a name when given, should be deemed a sacred property.
I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it, that I find much more time necessary for it than I can at present dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease neither the rational Christian nor Deists, and would reconcile many to a character they have too hastily rejected. I do not know that it would reconcile the genus irritabile vatum who are all in arms against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be softened. The delusion into which the X.Y.Z. plot shewed it possible to push the people; the successful experiment made under the prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro' the U.S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians & Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me, forging conversations for me with Mazzei, Bishop Madison, &c., which are absolute falsehoods without a circumstance of truth to rest on; falsehoods, too, of which I acquit Mazzei & Bishop Madison, for they are men of truth.
But enough of this: it is more than I have before commitred to paper on the subject of all the lies that has been preached and printed against me. I have not seen the work of Sonnoni which you mention, but I have seen another work on Africa, (Parke's,) which I fear will throw cold water on the hopes of the friends of freedom. You will hear an account of an attempt at insurrection in this state. I am looking with anxiety to see what will be it's effect on our state. We are truly to be pitied. I fear we have little chance to see you at the Federal city or in Virginia, and as little at Philadelphia. It would be a great treat to receive you here. But nothing but sickness could effect that; so I do not wish it. For I wish you health and happiness, and think of you with affection. Adieu.
Darthfrodo:
You commented "The Japanese learned years ago that placing blame will not solve problems, addressing problems will."
I would say that the Japanese are a smarter country than the USA, if what you say is correct.
I would add further that I am ready to do some hard work that will limit taxation on the rich if rules for unionization are made simple.
I am ready for dems to trade some ideas with right wingers to get our country on track, but this means I get half and they get half.
Social Security taxes are no longer capped in exchange for offshore drilling expansion.
Medicare for all in exchange for continuation of tax preferred status for capital gains.
Financial walls around the borders (Keep Willards money out of Swiss bank accounts) in exchange for new Employee tax credits.
I am sorry, but I don't see the republicans showing up for these type of horse trades.
Until republicans become Americans first again, it will stay like it is today.
I am ready to barter, when will the other side show up and be honorable?
Here's another one: Welfare families need to help provide daycare for 4 hours a day rather than stay at home in exchange for localized scholarship retraining sponsored by regional companies. Quid quo pro.
"Carmine:
I think you are wrong about this, Here is some proof:"
I'm not trying to make you believe and/or change your thinking. I'm citing the facts. Think what you like.
There is a reason the Europeans who landed at Plymouth Rock were called "Pilgrims" and dressed the way they did. A name still given to people who are spiritual and make visits to religious/holy places. Aka Pilgimage.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Carmine:
I am a Born Again Christian who doesn't want government being the slightest bit involved in anything religious, this way you -- and me -- get to practice as we believe.
Here is the definition of "pilgrim"
pilgrim [pil-grim, -gruhm]
pilgrim [pil-grim, -gruhm]
noun
1. a person who journeys, especially a long distance, to some sacred place as an act of religious devotion: pilgrims to the Holy Land.
2. a traveler or wanderer, especially in a foreign place.
3. an original settler in a region.
4. ( initial capital letter ) one of the band of Puritans who founded the colony of Plymouth, Mass., in 1620.
5. a newcomer to a region or place, especially to the western U.S.
The words origins:
Origin:
1150--1200; Middle English pilegrim, pelegrim, cognate with Old Frisian pilegrim, Middle Low German pelegrim, Old High German piligrim, Old Norse pilagrimr, all < Medieval Latin pelegrinus, dissimilated variant of Latin peregrinus peregrine
Let me try em in order:
1. Plymouth Rock was the promised Land? This is a HUMONGOUS stretch. Not credible that it was a religious experience coming to North America. A leap of faith, yes.
2. Check, it fits
3. Check, it fits
4. Check, it fits
5. Wrong geography, sort of fits.
Origins from 1100's -- not biblical at all.
Sorry pal, it is what you would like to hope happened, I think the butchering of natives kind of negates your hopes though.
Jeff, I see that you are a born again christian.... is that why you called for young black men to arm themselves in the wake of the Zimmerman incident?
This is why I do not believe in God or his ilk.
"1. a person who journeys, especially a long distance, to some sacred place as an act of religious devotion: pilgrims to the Holy Land."
That would be the same one I used too. Numero Uno. At the top of the list. Pilgrims, as we call them, came and settled here to escape religious persecution in England and other parts of Europe. The etymology of the word says it all. Isn't language remarkable.
Thank you.
Carmine A. DiFazio
BTW, no where in the Bible is the word bible. Yet the Bible is still the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. Don't you just love language derivation and usage. Yeah, me too.
Carmine A. DiFazio
"butchering of natives "
I see you haven't read the great Bible battles of the Old Testament. You should. I highly recommend them. In fact they are a source of reference for most of the great generals. Especially Moses, the first special ops commander and the battle he waged with 300 poorly armed old nomad farmers to defeat a well trained and armed force of 3000 to capture his nephew Lott. I believe Moses and his band slaughtered them all to the very last one. It was Moses that delivered the Jews to the Promise Land and God made the covenant with him and the 10 Commandments and the Jewish people. That's what I thought too.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Who can ever forget the lyrics from our great song: America. We sing them all the time.
"My country, 'tis of Thee,
Sweet Land of Liberty
Of thee I sing;
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the pilgrims' pride,
From every mountain side
Let Freedom ring."
See there's that word "pilgrim" again. Aren't songs [words set to music] remarkable.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Carmine.....
So why do you back the heartless republicans who
have waged a war on the poor?
The Catholic Church came out against the
Ryan plan today because it was to
hard on the poor.
Carmine:
You look like a pretzel you are so twisted in knots trying to make a point that because you think people came here to "avoid religious persecution" you are now allowed to force religious persecution on the American public?
Heretic:
The reason I want all black men to take up arms is because I think gun ownership is good, especially if you are habitually targeted for no rational reason. As a society I think that minorities have not been taken seriously.
I think an army of black men would be taken seriously, and the army of black men would prosper and make great harmony in our country.
But I think the NRA would finally find some gun laws it liked.
Sorry about your non believing ways.
"Carmine:
You look like a pretzel you are so twisted in knots trying to make a point"
I thought the same of you about 5 posts ago. Funny how you judge others by yourself.
Coming here to escape religious persecution, which is the reason the pilgrims came and the Founding Fathers refused to adopt a government sponsored religion [Thomas Jefferson] which were my points, has nothing to do with what happened after. It's called a non-sequitor. Or as you, twisting like a pretzel.
Carmine A. DiFazio
"The Catholic Church came out against the
Ryan plan today because it was to
hard on the poor."
You're a day late and a dollar short. Try to keep up.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Remember Pilgrims came in 1620, the Declaration of Independence was 1776 and the Costitution in 1787. I suspect by the time these documents were written and signed by the Founding Fathers, most if not all of the pilgrims who made the voyage were dead. What do you think?
Did you have any relatives come over on the Mayflower? Bet they passed down some really good stories about religious persecution across the pond.
Carmine A. DiFazio
You may have posted that the fact our current president rarely if ever goes to church with his family indicating that our government does not mix religion. While you would be correct that the president doesn't, your conclusion is a non-sequitor. Or as you like to say, your conclusion is twisted like a pretzel to make a point.
I would rebut that the fact Romney is a faithful Mormon and has served as Mass governor, it is.
Both the above have no bearing on why the pilgrims came here in the first place and Thomas Jefferson refusing to adopt a state sponsored religion for the 13 colonies.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Carmine:
Here is your original point, now debunked by you 100%
""religion and politics dont mix. good letter jon."
Disagree. This nation was founded because of religious freedom from persecution. And it is still part of every fiber of the US being."
This nation was not founded first off, it was inhabited by Americans before the pilgrims showed up, but, on with your show...
You have pointed out the pilgrims (a provable secular, not biblical word) arrived generations before this country was committed by the pen of the signers of the Declaration of Independence.
So the pilgrims were no part of this, a Non sequitur you have alluded to?
The principals of all people being able to worship, or not worship, essentially as they pleased (It was written this way, practiced radically different) was - according to you - "which is the reason the pilgrims came and the Founding Fathers refused to adopt a government sponsored religion [Thomas Jefferson] "
So, to sum up -- in your words, the pilgrims were all dead -- so there is no connection between them and the founding of the country (I disagree--their descendants were a part of the process) and our "Founding Fathers" refused to allow state sanctioned religion (once again -- your own words) makes you against your own argument.
Typical right winger, always voting against your own self interest. Now that it is clear we agree, I consider this issue closed.
I love Houston Jack's post. Typical GOP argument, cherry-picking the facts that suit him. Attention guy: people are on to you.
I'll start with the way you ignore the argument at hand (did Obama do all the evil things we were warned about?) and launch into a list of his "failures". Except your list is bogus.
Camapaigning for re-election two years into his term? The campaign to unseat him started two years before that.
Recession? Do you happen to recall when the recession started? Bush let the financial industry go wild for 8 years and destroy the economy, and you call Obama to task for not fixing it in 3?
Business investment not back up to 2007? Are we skipping over 2008?
Class warfare? Taxing billionaires at the same rate as their secretaries is not class warfare.
I could go on, but there's no point. You're in love with your own dogma. Not even the impending Obama landslide (and trust me, Romneydroid hasn't the credibility to be elected dogcatcher at this point) will shake your faith in his "failure". Me, I have to go and sign up for insurance, something I can only do because of one of Obama's "failures".