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Monday, Aug. 20, 2012 | 2:01 a.m.
It’s time to stop apologizing for adopting sensible market-driven solutions such as outsourcing. The market principles and conditions that incent private businesses to reach outside the U.S. for profits are natural and predictable.
We should never give in to the endless political criticism from the left to defy time-tested economic principles, like that of “comparative advantage.”
There are many reasons for investing in foreign markets, and these are elementary in nature: taxes, lower costs, market leverage, developing a new foreign market, cost to destination, factor distributions, and the basic forces of globalization and related need for market and organizational integration.
Businesses must decide what is in their best interests. After all, it is they who put up the risk capital.
Unfavorable industrial policies in the U.S., including high corporate taxes and regulatory burdens, create an unfavorable climate for local investment.
In addition, it often makes more sense for businesses to invest overseas.
When this is the case, they should be free to do so without government-imposed barriers and disincentives that end up inflating delivery costs to the ultimate consumer, restrict free trade or prevent businesses from investing and growing in the local and global markets.
Yeah just exploit the poorest countries possible that will help them top 1%. Since your a multinational you don't have to answer to anyone,just bribe the poorer countries for cheap labor and no environmental law. Most people in the United States, jobless and homeless will see their government corrupted too !
Bob is right.
Business has only responded to market conditions. Today, it is more a case that people can only afford to buy cheap imports, but back in the 80s and 90s, when the economy was booming, our Congress and Presidents set the stage with poor trade policies such as NAFTA.
We are now entangled in a very sticky web called the WTO. It will be a painful process to cut our way out of it. But until we do, it will be impossible for our economy to ever recover properly.
Just as I expected; your letter to the editor is certainly far from being, "A Fact, Jack".
It's apparent as a typical Republican what you want. You see no problem in private businesses and corporations having free reign in destroying our environment. You see no problem in our waters being polluted, contaminating the skies, and paying slave wages to employees and providing unsafe / unhealthy working conditions for them. All of this "Mr. Fact Jack" in the name of lining your pockets in unethical and immoral mannerisms for your personal gain.
Gee, how surprising it was to read that you agree with businesses outsourcing. Turn your backs on the American worker, Republicans. Go ahead, we expected it.
Look at the township where you live "Mr. Fact Jack". North Las Vegas. What have you all gained from your greed there? There has been a massive home foreclosure ratio there. Vacant jails, the laying off of police officers, and empty fire stations. Yes, yes North Las Vegas, a township on the verge of bankruptcy and being taken over by the state.
No doubt "Mr. Fact Jack", a job well done by all you Republicans. I shudder to think what the contents will be of your next letter to the editor.
@ Bob Jack...
"Unfavorable industrial policies in the U.S., including high corporate taxes and regulatory burdens, create an unfavorable climate for local investment."
HA HA HA HA HA!!!
TeaTalk...ain't it funny?
'If we can't pollute America to our heart's content AND we can dodge the Taxman if we send these jobs overseas, PLUS we can pay slave wages...heck, this outsourcing stuff is a no-brainer!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qeybcLkW...
http://www.barackobama.com/plans/outsour...
The 800lb gorilla in the room is this: Why is it cheaper to manufacture articles offshore and import them, with the attendant shipping costs, than it is to do so here when the cost of labor is a relatively small portion of the final cost of goods in many cases?
In March, 2009, barely two months into his term, President Obama had this to say:
"So I guess the answer to the question is, not all of these jobs are going to come back. And it probably wouldn't be good for our economy for a bunch of these jobs to come back ..." ( http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_offi... )
I think more than a few out-of-work voters might disagree with that statement. Given that the above statement is no different than what a Republican might say there should be little wonder why I am voting for neither Obama or Romney.
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Look at Obama's outsourcing
- The Obama GM has over 200,000 employees overseas and is expanding plants in China. GM is expanding their China Buick car factories. 7 out of 10 GM cars are made outside the US.
- Obama has outsourced the American space program to the Russians who charge $50 million for each American it takes up.
- Obama has outsourced the manufacturing of $400 million worth of planes to be turn over to Afghanistan in 2014 when Obama drops out of the war on Terror to Brazilian based Embraer SA
- The Obama stimulus Gave $2.4 billion stimulus program to support battery production sent nearly half of its money to foreign firms, including two South Korean companies that used their awards to hire foreign nationals in Michigan.
- As Obama was doling out over $2.3 billion in clean energy manufacturing tax credits that were supposed to create jobs in America, $880 million went to foreign firms. Worse still, some of those same recipients are now closing up shop and shipping jobs overseas.
- SunPower Admits That Some of the Solar Panels for the $1.3 Billion Stimulus Backed California Solar Valley Ranch Will Be Manufactured At Their Facility In Mexico Rather Than Their Facility In California.
- ABB Inc. Received Over $16 Million in Stimulus Funds to Create Green Energy Manufacturing Jobs, the Company Has Laid Off Workers in the U.S. and Transferred Work To Mexico.
- Obama has awarded a $10 billion K-rationing contract to Dubai-based Anham FZCO and Nertherlands-based Supreme Foods to supply food to Afghanistan troops. Supreme food is still in a over charging penalty situation. Anham has a $25 billion automatic rollover provision for the next five years. Further the food will not be from America.
The writer presents a sensible justification for outsourcing from a strictly business point of view. But the business point of view is neither the only point of view nor necessarily more important than the working class point of view. And while it's true that "businesses must decide what is in their best interests", it is equally true that the working class must decide what is in their best interest.
Future has posted an "interesting" list, to put it mildly.
Before the partisans from both sides get into it, let's assume that there is some truth in each point for sake of discussion.
Let's assume, also, that several of the items listed were inherited contracts from Bush (which I know to be the case in at least one of them.)
Even if we grant my second assumption, that Obama inherited all of these contracts, then we are still left with the conclusion that Obama is little more than Bush Lite at best, and possibly Bush III in some respects.
Look at any of the sites that attempt to classify a person's political beliefs. The ones that I have been to show Obama on the right (but not as far as Republicans) and far towards the "Statist" (Authoritarian) max. In other words, there is little difference between him and many Republicans.
There is little reason to think that either Democrats or Republicans will do anything to change how our economy works today. They simply don't have the will (or brain power) to understand it for themselves.
PISCES41,
The working class decided what was in its "best interest" when it started buying large amounts of imported goods in the 90s, which among other factors, put significant pressure on domestic business to outsource jobs to stay competitive.
Since our economy was booming at the time under Clinton, one can only conclude that the desire to save money (do we dare call it greed?) was more important that saving domestic jobs, we have only ourselves to blame for much of the state we find ourselves in now. Today, we buy cheap imports because we can't afford anything else. That simply wasn't the case back then when the seeds were sown.
"Free Trade" can only exist in a homogenous environment where everyone plays by the same rules. Say what you want about business putting its interests ahead of the workers, but keep in mind that the international trade rules were put in place by both Democrats and Republicans at various times.
If we want to be mad at anyone, it should be Clinton and his Republican Congress that approved NAFTA and sponsored China for full membership in the WTO.
I once worked as a Director of Customer Satisfaction for a company in Glendale California that developed, manufactured and sold educational software for children. I ran an 80 person call center in the US where we took calls and emails from people who wanted to buy the software and or wanted assistance in using it.
At some point, development and education in India and technological advances made it much less expensive to handle that function by locating the call center in India.
If our competitors, both US and foreign had kept their call centers in the US, American companies could have and would have done the same, but they didn't, so now when you call because your PC or washing machine breaks down, you often get a person named 'Thomas', who sounds very much like he lives in India, because he does.
This is called competition, on a global scale, and if you don't play, your business dies. It isn't pretty, but it is reality.
To those of you that have responded to Bob Jack's letter, I think you need to step out of the dream world into the real world. Some outsourcing is reversing slowly because the Indian and Chinese workers are becoming a 'middle class' and demanding better wages and benefits, so their cost advantage is lessening, but the process will be slow and take a long time.
This demonizing of business, as though they do the things they do simply because they don't care about their employees is nuts. Yes, profit is one of the main goals but you cannot have profit if you don't compete and you go out of business and if that happens, people don't have jobs.
Michael
In reply to "Boftx"; Jim Bacon, for the sake of this discussion, let us say that what "Future" disaster posted is true about President Obama. Then, shouldn't factless "Jack" be supporting the President?
Contradictions, lies and more contradictions.
In reply to Michael Casler; surely, I have to agree that Republican based corporate and private business owners are the job creators. You've all done a fine job. India and China thanks you all very much!!!
BChap,
If Bush was wrong with his policies (which he was, in my opinion) then why should anyone support Obama for continuing them? We do not have any viable choices this November.
The letter writer, Mr. Jack, is exactly dead on center right. In economic parlance, it's called economies of scale. Among the hoi polloi, it's called not reinventing the wheel.
Impugning outsourcing makes for interesting political soundbites. The democrats' 2012 forte.
CarmineD
I have (what I think is) a funny story about outsourcing with regard to what Michael posted.
I just started a new job after being unemployed for a couple of months. Right after I accepted my new position, I had four other offers come in, including one from a company in India who wanted a US programmer. I can only surmise that they wanted someone with a "local" accent to speak with US customers. :)
boftx,
Your points are well taken and illustrate how far the pendulum has swung on the outsourcing issue. I am not mad at anyone, but you can forgive my efforts to help put the pendulum motion in a better direction that will be win-win for all of us.
I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that everyone of the leftist commentors who are against the dastardly deed of "outsourcing" make financial decisions everyday whereby they reject the more costlier product in favor of the less expensive; choose the stores where they get the "biggest bang" for their buck; and negotiate prices where the situation calls for it. If they say they don't, they are either liars or terrible money managers. Yet they take the hypocritical stance that when others do it, they are somehow "greedy." Regardless of the GMC commercials that say other wise, I know no one who goes into an auto dealership and says, "I'll take it," at window sticker price. I also know no one who does not shop prices when buying groceries, gas, TV's, cell phone service, computers or clothing. Maybe some of the regular lefties that post here will confess that they do not "shop" prices so we can see they are not hypocrites. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.
Jerry, I don't think you can buy any piece of electronic gear that is 100% "Made In USA" now. And it is a sure bet that if you buy anything that has sub-assemblies from Mexico the parts have come in from China, regardless of what the stickers might say.
Here is the whole picture. Poor people and most people in the middle class need jobs but don't create many.
Entrepreneurs big and small do start businesses and often create jobs and employ people. These business people do outsource employment to increase profit, remain competitive and remain in business. Outsourcing does cost jobs here and provides job elsewhere.
Now that we've admitted how things work in a worldwide economy where people are 'allowed' to 'choose' which products and services they will purchase, how is it that Bradley and others that hold his view, propose that we buck all these worldwide market forces?
Please make your suggestions. I've had a couple of employers outsource my job and I did not like it, so I'm not kidding. What do you folks suggest be done?
Michael
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Anyone that buys an iPad or iPhone is supporting outsourcing. Apple keeps it profit overseas
Obama was just on Entertainment Tonight bragging how he uses his iPhone after he dumped his Blackberry
Go figure
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Bob forgot the main reason people like him think outsourcing is sensible. Personal greed.
"Unfavorable industrial policies in the U.S., including high corporate taxes and regulatory burdens, create an unfavorable climate for local investment."
Which is why the air in many parts of China is almost unbreathable and the water a stew of toxic filth (in other words, much the same as the air and water found in parts of 3rd world states Texas and Louisiana).
A race to bottom with the China's of the world is not in our best interest despite the GOP's best efforts to take us there.
What's the difference between a terrorist network and a multinational corporation ?
The drama queens would have you believe our air and water are polluted. The fact is they are clean and continue to get cleaner. Even during George W's "rape of the environment" the air got cleaner.
Unless you call CO2 a 'pollutant'. LMAO!
You can't favor an ideology that supports outsourcing American jobs and then complain China is dominating the world market unfairly, which is exactly what is happening in this country.
I also have a problem with people accusing President Obama of being a socialist/communist but jump through hoops to do business with communist China. A country that actually does suppress human rights.
"Many conservatives, particularly those who are clearly authoritarians, are not aware of their illogical, contradictory, and hypocritical thinking. If made cognizant of it, they either rationalize it away, neglect to care, or attack those who reveal their human weaknesses. Because such thinking seems to be a reality of contemporary conservatism, anyone operating from a logical mind or has the inclination toward a reasoned judgment will have a problem with this."
- John Dean "Conservatives Without Conscience"
Wake up casler the globaloneyists are only creating employment in China !
In the history of business this is the first time outsourcing has ever occurred in any major way. It is debatable whether it will last. Business relies on consumption from the working class to survive. Outsourcing depresses wages in one country while increasing employment in another. If companies want people to buy the trillions in crap they manufacture workers need MONEY. The vast majority of Americans have little wealth and the depressed wages act to further inhibit consumption which makes a strong economic recover nearly impossible.
To say outsourcing is a part of business when it has been going on for about 30 years is a stretch. Capitalism has been around for nearly 500 years.
Corporate taxes are currently running about 11% of profit. A tiny number and the lowest in decades.
Outsourcing is occurring due to low wages in the 3rd world and the brilliant "Geographic" economic manufacturing model employed by the Chinese. Apple has said this is the main reason they do loads of business in China.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02...
Michael,
I am fully awake and know that many companies operating in the US and many based here create jobs in other countries and outsource jobs to other nations and I know why it is done.
That said, I, in some ways would like to go back to the 1950's and early 1960's, which was a pretty good time for me as a kid.... but I can't. I have to live in the here and now.
The economy is global now and we compete in it. We are not the only game in town anymore. What are your suggestions... other than criticizing what is?
Michael
Vernos,
You state part of the problem clearly. What is business expected to do when if they don't outsource and keep their prices as low as possible, Americans decide to buy the least expensive product or service, the one that keeps prices low by outsourcing. The enemy isn't business... it's us!
Why do companies do business with China? Because American consumers are not buying and the Chinese are. Again, the enemy isn't China. It's us.
Neither Obama or Romney has a solution to this.
Michael
Michael : Back in the 50-60's ; the press would report on nations that were dumping products on world markets ( selling things for the less than the cost to make them); there were things called tariffs What happened ?
Jobs that are moved offshore don't produce domestic consumers.
Carmine..."economies of scale" has nothing to do with outsourcing. The concept deals with increased efficiency as output goes up. This produces lower marginal cost per unit.
Outsourcing enables us to buy goods at lower cost but depressed wages reduce our ability to consume.
I believe the short term benefit will be offset by stagnant consumption.
I don't think that being able to buy a pair of pants for 12 bucks at Walmart has led to a stronger economy. The balance sheet of most Americans is in the worst shape since the great depression. The lack of savings, stagnant wages, high medical and education costs have put many into a ditch they can't climb out of.
An auto worker in Germany makes 70 bucks an hour. In the south they make 14 an hour. The German can pay his bills and has money left over for savings. The American does NOT.
Dear Bob Jack
You haven't heard of the Hamilton plan, which we used up until the 1980's. Let me explain this plan to you and your fellow free market, supply-siders.
The Hamilton plan followed Henry VII's Tudor plan that was used by Great Britain to make it a super power. Under this plan, raw materials were allowed to enter the country duty free, while manufactured goods were taxed. In reverse, exported raw materials were taxed and exported finished goods were shipped duty free. This tariff protected our manufacturing base, which allowed us to create great sums or wealth.
The conservatives in this country descend from the Tories, who wanted to stay loyal to the British. They didn't like the idea of southern cotton being used by the North to make textiles. They preferred that cotton would go to England where it could be made more cheaply into textile products. That is why the objected when we placed tariffs on the British textiles. This along with slavery led to the Civil War.
The reasoning behind this was that real wealth is created when you turn raw material into manufactured goods. For example, a piece of wood has no value except for firewood or a club. You take human work and turn that wood into an ax handle worth $15, wealth has been created.
Great Britain didn't even allow its colonies to produce any finished goods and demanded all raw materials be sent back to England for manufacturing. This why we fought for our independence. This is why India fought for its independence. Remember the "Loom" was Gandhi's symbol, because England would not allow any traditional cloth to be spun in India.
Hamilton knew, that if you promoted manufacturing in your country, you would make the entire nation prosperous. The British even knew this. That is why you see South Korea, Japan, China, India and Vietnam adopting the Hamilton plan.
The U.S. is the only country that does not protect its manufacturing base. Even the countries we have free trade agreements with, impose VAT taxes on our finished goods. Their manufactures get a VAT rebate when they ship goods to us.
The only way we can solve our economic problems in the country is to go back to the Hamilton plan, raise taxes on incomes over $3m to over 50%, scrap the social security cap and lower the retirement age to 55, nationalize the health care system like everyone has and raise wages across all economic ranges equally. But it all starts with rebuilding our manufacturing base and protecting it from multi-national corporate raiders like Mitt Romney and Bain Capital.
brtaylor,
Our participation in the WTO pretty much precludes us from returning to a sane trade policy.
Michael,
In the 50's and 60's, the economy wasn't global. We had a clear advantage that we don't have today. Do you really want to start a trade war?
Michael
Dear botfx
That means we must end our participation in the WTO, GATT, NAFTA, SHAFTA or any other agreement that takes control of our economic policies out of our hands.
Trade war???? Every country is eating our lunch and we have half the country on welfare, tens of thousands signing up a day.
American vehicles don't fit on many of Europe's roads. The stuff we make doesn't fit into their homes. Import tariffs are massive. In Europe they have been practicing this capitalism game a lot longer than we have. The countries that protect workers and manufacturing have a future. The rest are welfare states like the US.
Research what happened when Walmart went to Deutschland. Hint...they didn't make it.
Go to any Ebay Europe site and try to find American or Japanese products. Then go to our Ebay and type in Mercedes, BMW, VW, Audi and see what pops up.
Go to Japan and try to find American stuff other than Apple phones.
This is the only country in which nearly everything we use comes from someplace else.
We are by far the single largest importer in the world, with a trade deficit that is about equal to the rest of the world combined. We won't lose a trade war, we are subsidizing the rest of the world. They need our business.
Obumma has outsourced his record for this campaign.
We should put a tax on third world labor today and adapt the Chinese manufacturing model. It is fantastic. We need high paying jobs for the uneducated fools that watch "Swamp People" and "The great Sandwich". A service sector economy is a welfare economy. That is where much of the job creation has come from the last 20 years.
Cars, mining,construction,energy,electronics...That is where the money is, not fries and shakes.
Flash
Obama news conference
Obama said Romney is not a felon and did not cheat on his taxes and did not murder Joes wife
Obama is back tracking on the campaign lies
What next backtracking on outsourcing
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/california...
Read the above. Most of our economic and labor policies are ludicrous. It is a miracle we have gotten as far as we have. Soon we will have a 15 buck an hour workforce and we will be paying $5.00 for a tomato. Food stamps are going to explode.
Perhaps, letter writer should stick to blogging. This is one of the lamest letters we have seen in a long time. I will bet you were really proud of this letter too, weren't you?
You just said you do not care about Jobs, Jobs, Jobs. What? The CONservatives/TEAbagger types do not have a clue what message they want to send to the American People. They are all over the map.
A pro outsourcing letter??? What is wrong with this picture?????
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
rusty57, Aug. 20, 2012 10:50 a.m.
Obumma has outsourced his record for this campaign.
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The President is outsourcing jobs? Oh really? Too funny!!!!!
kepi: "The President is outsourcing jobs?"
Actually, yes. Obamacare tax on medical device makers is outsourcing jobs overseas as we speak. They are laying off here and expanding over there. The chuckle is on kepi once again.
Hey as a businessman you can out-source all you want but we the people don't have to elect you for public office! LOL
"Businesses must decide what is in their best interests"
And businesses will cry longest, loudest and hardest when their tax burden increases to cover the costs of unemployment, among other things that are paid for by the taxes that workers pay.
Ya well actual REAL small businesses don't do business overseas since the Multinationals have all but made that impossible.
So from the start this letter is based on false premises.
The entire subject is about Globalism, not any sort of dreamy bs about free markets and pulling one's self up by their jock straps. It is about international pirates taking advantage of our systems and workers for their own benefit. It is about using off shoring of labor and capital. It is about destroying sovereign countries in the pursuit of profit, nothing more.
Kepi says
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"The President is outsourcing jobs? Oh really? Too funny!!!!!"
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But Look at Obama's outsourcing
- The Obama GM has over 200,000 employees overseas and is expanding plants in China. GM is expanding their China Buick car factories.
- 7 out of 10 GM cars are made outside the US.
- Obama has outsourced the American space program to the Russians who charge $50 million for each American it takes up.
- Obama has outsourced the manufacturing of $400 million worth of planes to be turn over to Afghanistan in 2014 when Obama drops out of the war on Terror to Brazilian based Embraer SA
- The Obama stimulus Gave $2.4 billion stimulus program to support battery production sent nearly half of its money to foreign firms
- SunPower Admits That the Solar Panels for the $1.3 Billion Stimulus Backed California Solar Valley Ranch Will Be Manufactured At Their Facility In Mexico
- Obama has awarded a $10 billion K-rationing contract to Dubai-based Anham FZCO and Nertherlands-based Supreme Foods to supply food to Afghanistan troops.
Obama is OK with outsourcing.
He has a Jobs Council and the leader he appointed to that council is GE's CEO which has laid-off tons of US workers and outsourced them to Asia.
You go....Obama.
The Jobs Council meets like once a year or once every other year. They meet whenever Obama can fit it into his busy golf schedule.
Every morning, Obama thinks about jobs.
Biden says Obama is thinking about a 3 letter word, "jobs jobs jobs". He even spelled.....j o b s and said it was a 3 letter word.
I pray to God Obama stays healthy. Biden is a total moron. In Feb next year, we will have a ton of time to play as much golf as he wants to.
Ya well Obama works for International Pirates. Thinking people know all this you are boring me. This topic is juvenile in it's simplicity. This is 1999 WTO basics.
This letter by "bob" is pure fiction. Like most from the brainwashed it is simple marketing wrapped in a red, white and blue bun.
We have not had a functioning Democracy since Seattle 1999. Most people now living here are nothing, and I mean nothing, but the extension of products. They lack any sort of thinking ability and simply eat and breath to service brands. Sort of like writing these silly letters to the Sun is.
Barrack is a brand. Willard is not. game over.
Look both of these idiots supposedly running in what is believed to be an election work for these same people "bob" wrote his creed defending. These people win and win and really could careless which one of their nags wins. There will always be arguments amongst the mafia dons as to which of their boys is better but in the end they all agree no third party candidate will ever crash their party.
The BIG decisions are always the same. Obama vs Romney boils down to philosophy. Boot straps vs ramps. The BIG decisions will be made no matter what delivery boy is reinstalled.
Mr. Jack,
So, your position is that American companies can do whatever it takes to meet/exceed its bottom line; including laying off American workers and outsourcing what should be American jobs to other countries just to save money.
Why would Americans buy products made by that American company who does not care about the American workers? Maybe we should organize a boycott against those companies. Can that American company succeed without an American market for his products? Maybe they should find out for themselves.
You say businesses must decide what is in their best interest. So American consumers must do the same thing!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Stagnant wages due to lousy economic decisions through the decades, the lowest savings rate in recorded US history and sky high aggregate costs are going to result in the costliest welfare state in the history of the world. Take that to the bank.
These are not Romney vs. Obama issues. It took decades to get into this mess and it will take decades to resolve the wealth issues.
The fed put out a report last year reflecting 12 years to get unemployment back to 5%. But only if GDP rises to 3% or greater. We are not even close.
Not only is welfare going but it is increasing at an increasing rate. When the 40 million remaining boomers retire nearly 70% of our population will be getting some type of entitlement.
The next contraction will hit soon and we will be praying for 8% unemployment. A recession hits every few years with number 48 coming up.
Outsourcing is only the tip of the iceberg. Lack of savings is the 800lb. gorilla in the room.
To All of You who blame President Obama for companies outsourcing jobs is a riot! How long have you all lived in the U.S.? Did you just move here? This is just too funny!!!!
Let us make sure the readers understand what you all are saying. Some comments are blaming President Obama's because American companies are outsourcing jobs overseas where that same American Corporation can cut manufacturing costs to below minimum and make a huge profit???!!! Is that correct? Too funny!!! It is a riot!!
How about cancer ~ Blame Obama and while we are at it; let's blame Obama for Romney's lack of tax returns; let's blame Obama for Romney's $100M IRA; let's blame Obama for Climate Change (Oops, the CONseratives/TEAbaggers do not believe in climate change); let's blame Obama for the obesity problem in this country; let's blame Obama on the poor rankings that this city receives on every level; let's blame Obama on the headache I am getting since I have to write such a silly post!
Your facts come directly from the Carl Rove School of Lies!!!! Or your own garish imagination. Maybe from Frank Luntz's Talking Points or Grover Norquist or perhaps Sara Palin or Sharon Angle or Michelle Bachmann or from smoking something funny like John Sununu said about Obama.
Get real!!!! People do your own research. Want to live in a country with a defined line between the rich and the poor!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Mr. Jack,
High corporate taxes? Oh really? In 2011, American Companies paid an average of 12.9% in taxes at a rate of 35%.
High taxes are you kidding? Many companies paid a big fat ZERO $0 or got refunds. Are you kidding?
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Though I'm an early blooming boomer, from the 40s, I have held off on the trigger for SS because I'm having WAAAY too much fun to quit.
My little companies are hiring folks and paying them well. BUT, not around here, mostly the Pacific Northwest and the East coast, but we are paying our energy auditors 35 or 45 an hour and our regular weatherization workers 30, HVAC 60 plus. We are hiring local workers with jobs that nobody can outsource.
We are working to upgrade the energy-efficiency and comfort levels of our homes, installing better eqpt and solar panels to drive them. All of our workers do make living wages, family wages, and nobody does without insurance. But nobody makes more than $99K and nobody makes less then $60K a year. We found the source for sustainable funding and working - doing things as right as we can, and sourcing our jobs right here.
Mr. Jack,
Another thought"..
Regulatory burdens? Are you kidding? Are you referring to Consumer Protection? Corporate fraud is at an all-time high for cheating. Yet you want fewer regulations? Is this level of fraud not high enough for you?
If the product is Made in China sell to the Chinese. Maybe they should sell the products in the Caymen Islands, Bermuda and Switzerland where their tax-dodge monies are located and safely housed.
Is it great to take sides and let everyone know whose side you are on? Your side is corporations; my side is the American Worker and the American People. Romney and Ryan would be proud of you and applaud you and your efforts until November 7, 2012. Then they would say Mr. Jack WHO? Who is Mr. Jack? The CEO's of those corporations offshore would also be proud of you and your support until November 7, 2012. After all, you are supporting their bonuses and tax-deferred income. You et al. are their heroes until November 7, 2012 at which time you will no longer matter. You are not alone though, because none of us "Common People" or "Little People" will matter. Because we are all in this together like it or not!
And NO Republican has ever apologized so how can they stop what they have historically never done!
"Corporate Advantage" ~ "American Workers Disadvantage!"
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Mr. Jack,
Oops, got another thought".. Sorry
Where did you get your list of reasons for investing in foreign markets? Did it come from Bain?
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Obama deserves the heat on outsourcing.
If this President did one simple thing how many jobs would be created?
Say he banned all imports of paper clips. Instead all paperclips had to be made here in the USA. Thousands of jobs would be created. This is just one small product.
So the question becomes why doesn't he ban importation of PCs? simple, Obama works for Globalists. Even if he threatened something like this the crooks would tank the markets, their rigged markets. I say tank them. Americans lives are far more important than Walmart's importation of PCs made in China.
Obama is either working for Globalists or our country is being held hostage. How more OBVIOUS do things have to get for some on here to get-it?
Obama is a tool of WTO. He is nothing but the US proxy for International Pirates. His rub may feel better but the truth is the truth. Nothing is ever going to really "change" until most supporters of the Dems understand you are being played big time. Seeing the Right get owned is one thing. But understand Progressives, you too are being owned.
Is it an absolute riot that some of you people do not know anything about outsourcing!
If you did, you would not make such outlandish comments. Funny in a scary kind of way!
Remember, the line in the sand.
Rich on one side; poor on the other
Romney/Ryan represent the rich
Obama/Biden fights for the Middle Class
Which side are you on?????
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Joe,
I always love your comments. To me, you represent everything that is good in the United States of America. You are a successful business man that is making a difference. You are what the American Dream is all about! You have a successful business and respect for your employees and compensate them accordingly.
I applaud you and everything you stand for; you are a real American in my eyes!!!!!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/1...
The above is a Reuters report from 2008 on taxes payed by companies doing business in the US. How many companies pay ZIP on trillions in sales. Tax the tax code and burn it.
Outsourcing is killing the American Workers' dreams, breaking up families, leaving people near starving, increasing the homeless population, and scaring senior citizens. What happened to us as a people? We used to care and have more compassion. Now, most are greedy, what is in it for me attitude; it does not affect me so I do not care or I am too busy to vote someone else can do that for me. We use to care about one another.
Outsourcing can destroy the country that we love so much. Please open your mind to change.
What is funny in a repulsive kind of way is that CONseratives/TEAbaggers desperately and continually try to deflect every single solitary problem off to President Obama, while obfuscating the Republican/TEAbagger agenda. Using the word agenda jokingly because the Republican's only have talking points (e.g. bullet points) not really an agenda; except OBAMA BAD ~ REPUBLICAN GOOD. But if they had an agenda it would be everything for the wealthy and corporation; the rest of you are "Common People" "Little People" you can get by ~ eat cake ~ call the church for help ~ ask your neighbor. Do not bother me I am getting a massage. They will expect us to get used to the "New Normal" that they will create, where the line is drawn in the sand between the rich and the poor. For clarification purposes, "Middle Class" will be considered poor eventually.
We could have a civil and respectful debate on the Republican plan if we knew what it was, but it is a secret only to be revealed after the election. You see the Republican Plan for the American People is on a need to know basis and apparently, we do not need to know! They believe sound bites will work; they have worked in the past!! The secret Republican plan is probably Top Secret and if we are lucky enough, they will share their plan for America after the election.
Accusing Obama of stealing $716 Billion from Medicare is ludicrous as the same amount of $716 Billion is in the RYAN Medicare Plan, except under Ryan the savings are going into the wealthy tax cut slush fund; they need money for this fund.
As I said before:
Romney/Ryan represent the rich
Obama/Biden fights for the Middle Class
Which side are you on?????
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Boftx,
You do have a choice. We all have choices. I never thought I had a choice I just voted the R ticket; that how I was brought up and that is what I continued.
In 2008, I was still calling the press, the "Liberal Press". I watched Lou Dobbs. I had a discussion with a family member and started researching.
We will never agree on every single issue. We also may agree on many issues. Even in relationships, you never agree 100%, but you comprise. So, if we really look at the areas that are important to us, our children, and our grandchildren do the research and then vote accordingly; we have done the very best we can.
kepi,
I said we do not have a viable choice this November. Obama and Romney are more similar than anyone wants to admit, and the third party candidates are even worse this time around (with the possible exception of the Libertarian, but I know I will disagree with him on trade matters.)
I have said for decades that we can not prosper if we import more than we export. That chicken has come home to roost and is making a mess in its own nest.
Regarding his 9:52 post: BRTaylor for President!
Labor is only one part of the input equation. In some instances a small part. Below are thousands of items made in the USA. They don't cost much more than items made by foreign manufacturers. Plus they don't have to ship the items over the ocean which is costly. Hand everyone a Medicare card. This would save business trillions over time and close the cost gap.
http://americansworking.com/
Boftx,
Congratulations on your new job!!!!
Gerry,
Thank you so much for posting this site. I like this site and I get email message from a few of the companies.
boftx, Aug. 20, 2012, 3:27 p.m.
I have said for decades that we can not prosper if we import more than we export. That chicken has come home to roost and is making a mess in its own nest.
`````````````````
I totally agree. Once again, congratulations on your job! YES :)
Well, Casler, here's my suggestion:
In America, we have labor laws that prevent American workers from working for slave wages. So, we should expand those laws to make it illegal for any American (person or business) to employ any HUMAN in slave-wage conditions.
That would take away the incentive to outsource jobs, and put more Americans back to work.
Just a thought.
"Carmine..."economies of scale" has nothing to do with outsourcing."
Mr. Hageman:
I opine it most certainly does. Efficiency by definition allows outsourcing of collateral goods and services when it can be done cheaper by a contractor or vendor. This allows focusing on the main stay/component[s] of your own business. But for those like you [hoi polloi] who think outsourcing doesn't, I added the other reason: Why reinvent the wheel?
CarmineD
Let me pose a topical example to you Mr. Hageman:
You may have heard or seen dyson vacuums. Founded by James Dyson, a Brit inventor, who designed a bagless vacuum for about $500 US retail. Originally built in a factory in Malmesbury, England by Brits and sold exclusively in England. In 2000, James Dyson decided to go global and he subcontracted the building of his vacuums to a contract vendor in Malaysia because labor rates were 1/3 what the Brits earn. And he subcontracted the original motors for mass produced dyson vacuums to panasonic rather than build his own. Usually the motor is the most expensive component of the vacuum. Not in the case of dyson. He chose a one fan motor from panasonic that had been in the vacuum industry since the 1970's and at the time retailed over the counter for about $70 US and still not much more now. He was dirt poor in the 80's when he started his bagless design vacuum. Now a multi-billionaire just 10 years later after going global. Economies of scale, Mr. Hageman. Outsourcing.
CarmineD
Jerry,
"I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that everyone of the leftist commentors who are against the dastardly deed of "outsourcing" make financial decisions everyday whereby they reject the more costlier product in favor of the less expensive; choose the stores where they get the "biggest bang" for their buck; and negotiate prices where the situation calls for it. If they say they don't, they are either liars or terrible money managers."
You would be wrong!
Price is not the primary factor in my purchases. After research, I purchase using the following personal guidelines...
1. Need, not fad, fashion, or whim
2. Relevance
3. Quality
4. American made when available
5. Reputation of the company on many levels, including how they treat the workers in other countries
6. Service of manufacturer and seller
7. Price competitive with all else equal
8. Buy foreign when availability and quality are not possible.
Once I find service or support, operated by outsourcing, I don't buy anything further from the seller, if at all possible.
I pay little attention to advertising because it is manipulative.
It is amazing how little I actually need since following my policy. Yet, I enjoy a quality life, by my standards, and within my means. Credit excellent, no debt over 30 days old, and positive savings.
Typical I may not be, but I am not unique. Many responsible and thoughtful people do the same.
I want to support our country more than harm it by caving in to business profiteers that don't give a hoot about American consumers or workers.
I try to avoid creating more of a moral crisis than already exists. If more people did the same, we might be able to benefit our country and culture much more.
Business vultures are not a benefit to our nation. They seek only their own interest at the expense of others.
I'm neither a liar, nor a terrible money manager. I have moral values I live by, and honor others who do the same, to the best of my ability. Please, don't judge me by yourself.
and Carmine has explained yet another reason Globalism destroys local economies.
Course nobody said Capitalism was fair or those engaged in it moral.
The too big to fail company. Grown yourself so big you rid the market of competition, quality, and drive prices skyward. Just more monopoly bs.
Carmine,
What an accurate and horrible example you give in Dyson.
A typical profit vulture, at the expense of others.
I don't own any Dyson products, nor will I.
A good example of the moral crisis I speak of. Profit and wealth have become God!
It will be interesting in future generations when all those other third world countries prosper, and we are the third world country contracting out cheap labor.
Things haven't really changed much. You remind me of all those African outsourcer's who sold off their people to contractors who then shipped them to the Americas to be servants and slave labor. That was the not that long ago.
We can go back further in history and see the same general practice. What goes around comes around eventually. once great nations fall due to their own greed and injustice.
Great inheritance for our "children, grand children", and great grandchildren, etc.! Shame on all those who leave this legacy for them.
By your logic, Bob Jack, we as consumers shall not patronize your business for contributing to the demise of the middle class.
Bob Jack thinks Americans don't know how greedy,
heartless and anti-American worker republicans
destroyed our middle class and economy.
We already know Bob.
That's why we booted the heartless republicans
OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.
Your letter reinforces the reason we won't let
greedy republicans anywhere near the
White House.
FOUR MORE YEARS FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!
"Carmine,
What an accurate and horrible example you give in Dyson."
Read the history of James Dyson and his vacuum. And trust me I am no fan of his but his success is incontrovertible and undeniable.
In the 80's he designed and produced over 5000 protypes before he got the one right. Then fought with the major vacuum companies to sell his patents and rights. Couldn't. Took his company private in the UK in the 90's and after some hurdles was a huge success. Several vacuum comopanies copied his patents and lost law suits against him when he sued them. He parlayed the payouts into a larger plant in Malaysia and went global in 2000. Most vacuum makers now who offer bagless vacuums replicate his technology. And bagless vacuums once unheard of in the industry are a mainstay of the industry today. As I said, he became a multi-billionaire in less than 10 years and still according to Forbes most richest.
You and others may find that reprehensible. BUT...please tell me what have you done to obtain achievements and success, besides impugning persons like Dyson who have?
CarmineD
"You remind me of all those African outsourcer's who sold off their people to contractors "
I do? I opine you've outsourced your thinking abilities to a lesser intelligent species in the evolutionary chain.
CarmineD
Carmine asks:
"You and others may find that reprehensible. BUT...please tell me what have you done to obtain achievements and success, besides impugning persons like Dyson who have?"
I say:
Peacelilly, unlike you has not developed a doe eyed schoolboy crush on Mr. Dyson. She has, unlike you, developed a moral code that includes rather than excludes.
She is a great and shining example of what is good about America, you are America at its most hollow and shallow.
If you think the only way to success for Mr. Dyson was building out of country, you are more delusional than you usually are. Mr. Dyson has used the common's and the incomes of working class people to become bizarrely rich. And you fawn over this guy who couldn't give a rip about you while trampling over your neighbors to brown nose him.
Man up, you're ridiculous.
I will take Peacelilly as a neighbor, a friend, in the foxhole, anywhere over someone like you.
There are two good examples of what is happening here that I didn't see addressed: the complete and utter destruction of the "Made in America" television industry, and the blatant profiteering used as a "business model" by the NIKE corporation.
Japan made the decision to subsidize their television manufacturing companies with government money. Their goal was to undercut TV prices in the US so much, that they eventually controlled sales of their TV's only. There are no TV's made in America today as a result. Now Japan is getting underpriced by Korea. What goes around comes around
If one collects Nike sneakers, you have only to look at the labels and you will see that their plan was to have their shoes made in third world countries, for minimum cost, then ship their product back to the US. Then sell them to the American consumer for astronomical prices. There isn't anything cheap or economical about buying a pair of Air Jordan's. People have been killed for a pair on the streets.
I'll even add one more example: the American textile industry is on life support. Yes you can still find a few brands of clothing made in the US, but most are now produced in third world countries for minimum production cost, then the companies flood the market at slightly lower prices. However, there is nothing cheap or economical about buying something with a Ralph Lauren, Nautica, Tommy Hilfiger, Tommy Bahama label attached. Even though the product wasn't made here, the companies are still considered "American".
TEA MArk Traeger said:
"Man O Man...ya sure can tell when some liberals don't like facing the FACTS they're having to face. Especially when having to face them from some of their own.
They get just like this:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/romn...
I say:
Do you really get off on these little commercials for Romney you are always posting here?
Do you have a life?
You are one weird dude.
Our politicians, both Democratic and Republican, have opened the door for outsourcing. They have abandoned the road map given to us by Alexander Hamilton's 11-point Plan in his "1791 Report on Manufactures to Congress" that protected American industries. Our insane trade policies only benefit other countries and the transnational corporations. The losers here are mostly middle-class Americans as unemployment increases. We will never have a full recovery until we change the fundamentals!
In his book, "Rebooting the American Dream, " Thom Hartmann wrote, "After Reagan blew out our tariffs in the 1980s and Clinton kicked the door off the hinges with the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), and World Trade Organization (WTO), our average tariffs are now around two percent. The predictable result has been the hemorrhaging of American manufacturing capacity to those countries that do protect their industries through high import tariffs but allow exports on the cheap--particularly China and South Korea.
"The irony is that we have abandoned Hamilton's advice--and our own history--while China, South Korea, Japan, and other nations are following his prescriptions and turning into muscular and prosperous economic entities."
Carmine and his buddies are the ones who are allowing American Corporations to consigning America into becoming a mid level player with us becoming subservient to other countries. While these guys and Dick Morris are sucking Romney's toes the American economy is becoming permanently altered into mediocrity.
BTW peacelily, I purchased a DC07 pink dyson in Sept 2006 and gifted to my daughter. Why? Several reasons: It was on sale and cost me $250 at Target. It came with a 5 year warranty, at the time unheard of in the vacuum industry. It was a house warming present for my daughetre and husband. And finally $45 from the sale was donated by dyson to the Susan G. Komen cancer foundation.
After 5 years [almost to the day that the warranty expired], contrary to the dyson claim at the time, it clogged and lost suction. My daughter told me of its problems and I repaired. Had she taken it into a vacuum repair shop, it would have been a repair in excess of $100. It's still running, relatively well, and my daughter and her daughters who assist with the housekeeping like it. The pink color is probably why in large part. And the fact that they can see the dirt they pick up in the clear dirt bin.
CarmineD
For all those impugning outsourcing, please tell me/us what vacuum brand you own and where you bought it.
Why do I chose vacuums? According to Consumer Reports every household in America owns at least one vacuum and the majority of the households have two or more.
CarmineD
FWIW, the brand of vacuums used in the White House are SEBO. And long before Obamas' residency there. SEBO are German made and imported.
CarmineD
Sick. Environmental toxins? Stop smoking.
Reading about all this sucking business reminds me Ross Perot is still around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot
Good Morning Sick of Some,
How are you today? Just read your comments. Very nice. Keep up the good work.
Romney/Ryan represent the rich
Obama/Biden fight for the Middle Class
Which side are you on?
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
SickOfSomeOfU :
Made in China? $30? What gives? You're supporting an anti human rights regime. Slavery without the guilt!
CarmineD
"telling off peacelily about the almighty dyson,"
SickOfSomeOfU:
You're confused and conflicted obviously with your purchase of a China made vacuum.
I explained how "economies of scale" and outsourcing wrt vacuums allowed a dirt poor Brit inventor, actually designer, catapult in less than 10 years into a multi-billionaire.
Wealthy people, especially self-made like Dyson, are not all evil and headed to hades, as you and others here would have us believe. In fact, James Dyson has been very generous and philantropic with his newly acquired wealth. I am no fan of dyson vacuums and other products for the reasons I said already. I can like the man without liking his inventions and products. At least, I repeat at least, I bought one, used it, and came to my own conclusions about it without relying on hearsay and others' opinions. A true mark of a conservative thinker.
CarmineD
TEA - you emanate the fundamentals of the right wing: the complete lack of understanding of world history and your own society.
"Just gettin' out the truth of what liberalism really is...Jeffey-boy..."
Democracy is a liberal idea, not conservatism. It allows all people to vote and have a say into the operation of their country at all levels, regardless of social or financial standing. The opposite, 'Conservatism' assumes only the wealthy, privileged or the empowered few can make correct decisions. Conservatism is control by psuedo-aristocrats including religious strongmen who make more money by stepping on Democracies.
"A cowardly, lying, pathetic ideology (liberalism). With its roots in fascisim."
Fascism is a dictatorship by the privileged with religion as part of the Government. In the 1930's, the Catholic Church was responsible for introducing and supporting Fascist governments all over Europe. Dictators in Germany, Spain, the Balkans all retained the Catholics (and agreeable protestants) as an operating wing of their Governments.
The Spanish Civil war headed by General Francisco Franco, a devout Catholic was and attempt to bring 16th Century back to Spain. Franco was fighting the Liberals who won the election.
In Germany, the Catholic Church signed a business agreement with Nazi Germany in 1933 which was NEVER nullified. They agreed to support the Nazis if allowed to permeate Nazi society, a pledge that was never broken.
Fascism is Church and State, with the State ruled by dictators, murderers and criminals who pray to the Western God.
Democracy is a government that is controlled by it's citizens, regardless of religion or the lack thereof.
This is why you like outsourcing - because it destroys jobs at home and exists only for the benefit of much less than 1%...which is Fascism.
SunJon,
Wow awesome comment! Thank you for sharing
So, after 117 comments, we are reduced to bloviating about the merits of a f***ing vacuum cleaner. LOL.
"Idiocracy" is already here judging by *almost* every person who has posted on this letter, no matter which side they are on.
boftx said:
""Idiocracy" is already here judging by *almost* every person who has posted on this letter, no matter which side they are on."
I say:
I disagree, you are the only Whig to post here so far...
...that I know of.
Mr. Lind:
Here's an economic lesson for you in manufacturing. 20 Million new vacuums are sold each year in good economic times and bad. Each household has at least one and most have 2 or more. At one time vacuums were all metal, repairable and lasted a lifetime for their owners. And... made and sold exclusively by over 100 USA companies. Today, new vacuums are primarily Chinese made and disposable. You can count on one hand the number of homegrown US made vacuums and they have been decliningh steadily for years.
Now, sir, name one other consumer product that better replicates the decline and fall of USA manufacturing than the household vacuum cleaner. It epitomizes the decline of US manufacturing and decline in USA worldwide competitiveness. Then ask yourself why. When you have the answer, please let me/us know.
CarmineD
I always love how the Capitalists drag-out the charity horse. As if this somehow shows how moral they are after-all. I tend to think this is their attempt to cover-up the fact because of their stealing we need charity in the first place.
PS to my post above to you Mr. Lind:
20 Million new vacuum cleaner sales annually are for the USA only. Not globally.
CarmineD
Some people who write here make utterly stupid comments like this:
"Now, sir, name one other consumer product that better replicates the decline and fall of USA manufacturing than the household vacuum cleaner. It epitomizes the decline of US manufacturing and decline in USA worldwide competitiveness. Then ask yourself why. When you have the answer, please let me/us know."
If they really think it is "American Manufacturing" that is in decline he is even more stupid than he shows every day.
Here, for this brain dead republican brown nose is a small explanation. Almost 80% of small boutique businesses were knocked out of business by a place called Walmart using an advertising strategy stating everything in their stores was "Made In The USA".
Then Reagan and Clinton killed the Tariff and the big businesses -- especially Walmart quit making things in America because the American Public was too busy watching MJ and OJ to notice they have been swindled.
Now we have a generation of idiots like the poster I quoted that covers for Walmart and their brethren.
Hey moderator, he asked...
"I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that everyone of the leftist commentors who are against the dastardly deed of "outsourcing" make financial decisions everyday whereby they reject the more costlier product in favor of the less expensive; choose the stores where they get the "biggest bang" for their buck; and negotiate prices where the situation calls for it. If they say they don't, they are either liars or terrible money managers. Yet they take the hypocritical stance that when others do it, they are somehow "greedy." "
Mr. Fink, I believe you owe me a dollar and a doughnut - Strawberry frosted, please......
Jeff,
I am referring to those who simply do not take our trade policies into account as a major, if a primary factor, that has led to our current economic mess. You know as well as I do that both the Democrats and Republicans have continually weakened our trade position with respect to the WTO and global commerce in general.
As for the Whigs, they have traditionally been somewhat protectionist, and we continue to be so today. The Hamilton Plan as outlined earlier is in complete agreement with Whig philosophy.
Simply put, the posers, errrr. powers that be have forgotten that the citizens of this country *must* come first. Why do you think I say that public education is the foundation of our liberty?!? A well-educated electorate would vote all these morons out of office and replace them with competent representatives who are capable of using logic to guide our trade policies.
People decades ago weren't that educated and didn't support the morons we have now.
I think the more important issue is one's sources of news. A diet of Fox News and Hate Radio will absolutely make you stupid and dangerous to others. To me this coupled with a public who has been reduced to little more than knuckle dragging consumers, has resulted in mental patients holding office. Extremists Politics and an overdose of Capitalism has all but imploded this once great Democracy.
This stuff is common sense. One doesn't need a college education to figure out outsourcing should be severely limited. Easy to understand that our economy is not going to last long if the stores are full of Chinese made products. This is basic stuff.
The First Amendment is number one for a reason. Look at the mess when you allow a tiny group of fanatics and pirates almost total control of the Press.
The good news is the young people of America, and the World, have opted out of this destructive information paradigm. One hopes it will be enough to save the Planet.
""I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that everyone of the leftist commentors who are against the dastardly deed of "outsourcing" make financial decisions everyday whereby they reject the more costlier product in favor of the less expensive; "
Bingo. That's why I asked them to tell us what vacuum they bought and where. Have they? One did. China made for $30. They condemn Wal*Mart and others like it, but do they buy from the USA mom and pop stores that create jobs and sell American made goods and services? If so, prove it. Tell us the kind of vacuum you bought and where.
CarmineD