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Tuesday, May 1, 2012 | 2:02 a.m.
Arizona’s immigration law is unconstitutional and promotes racism by sanctioning the profiling of a certain group of people.
I thought we had settled this profiling during the fight for civil rights in the 1960s. We have gone backward in our laws and have not progressed at all.
You want to put the blame on someone for illegal immigration? Blame big corporations and local businesses for hiring illegal immigrants in the first place.
They would not have come here in droves if they hadn’t had the work. So blame the employers and Congress for this mess.
Who are you trying to kid anyway!!.
America needs *legal* immigrants to do certain jobs that Americans simply choose not to do. E-verify would help validate the legal immigrants. Regarding states use of E-Verify:
Arizona- The state of Arizona requires employers to participate in E-Verify: the Legal Arizona Workers Act has survived a number of constitutional challenges, up to and including the US Supreme Court and is currently in effect. The Legal Arizona Workers Act requires all Arizona employers to use E-verify with all newly hired employees, effective 1 January 2008.As of December 2008, 5.6 percent of Arizona businesses had signed up with E-verify.
California- In 2011, California passed an act to prohibit municipalities from mandating use of E-Verify.
North Carolina- The North Carolina Legislature passed bill, HB 36 on June 18, 2011 which was signed into law by Governor Beverly Perdue on June 23, 2011 as Session Law 2011-263. This bill will gradually require all private employers with more than 25 employees to use the federal online E-Verify program to verify the employment authorization of newly hired employees.
Mississippi- The Mississippi Employment Protection Act requires all Mississippi employers to use E-Verify with new hires.
Illinois- Section 12 of the Illinois Right to Privacy in the Workplace Act prohibits Illinois employers from using E-verify to verify the work authorization of their employees.
According to Forbes Magazine:
On September 21, 2011, H.R. 2885, legislation to make E-Verify mandatory across the nation, passed the House Judiciary Committee by a party line vote of 22-13. Does that mean the bill is on a smooth path to become law? If E-Verify legislation passes the House, it faces an uncertain future in the U.S. Senate. No Democrats voted for the bill in the House Judiciary Committee. While that does not mean the same will happen in the Senate, it's reasonable to assume the bill would get limited Democratic support.What is working against mandatory E-Verify legislation? The biggest obstacle a mandatory E-Verify bill faces is it lacks support among Democrats, which is a particular problem in the Senate. Many Democrats see H.R. 2885 as legislation that will make life more difficult for legal workers, due to the potential for false "positives" when using the system.
It appears Democrats are not fully on board yet with using E-verify to validate legal immigrants.
Don't forget that it was Harry Reid, the man who says there is no problem with illegal workers in Nevada, who removed the requirement to use E-Verify from the stimulus bill. There is no way that he will ever allow a bill like H.R. 2885 to even come up for a vote in the Senate.
Requiring the use of E-Verify by every employer would come close to eliminating all illegal immigration essentially overnight. We have empirical proof that if there are no jobs to be had illegal immigration declines and those already here self-deport. This has been proven by what has happened during the Great Recession.
The AZ law duplicates the Federal. Showing papers is the Federal law. AZ which is on the front line passed a law that is just like the Federal law so they could enforce their borders.
Obama has refused to enforce Federal laws forcing AZ to do it to protect their people.
Obama is an open border president - let AZ protect themselves.
Michael Parker; the days are past of placing blame for the huge illegal immigrant problem we have here in the United States. Instead of complaining about law enforcement authorities and pointing fingers, why are there no solutions from you?
"boftx"; excellent point in your commentary about the use of the E-verify system.
Mr. Parker, you expect positive results, but through "reactive channels". Winning this war on illegal immigration and the millions of illegal aliens positioned in our country now has to be attained through "proactive means". Will mistakes be made in this aggressive process? Yes, most likely. However, we cannot allow mission goals to be sidetracked or halted.
There should be a one year amnesty for all illegal aliens in the United States. Within this period, every illegal must report their status to the Immigration and Naturalization Service. These illegals would be required to pay the government back, with interest, all unpaid taxes, and social program funding received while in an illegal status. Any default on repayment results in immediate deportation.
Secondly, these illegal aliens must file within a specific timeframe the proper documentation, and follow all procedures and processes in becoming naturalized United States citizens. Failure to comply with these requirements, as well, should be met by government officials with the illegal alien's immediate deportation.
Illegals that opt not to report their undocumented status during the amnesty period will be subject upon capture, to immediate deportation. No questions asked.
That upon our southern border with Mexico, a "Morice" styled fence line be constructed to repel would be intruders attempting to cross illegally into the United States.
The "Morice" fence line with support has been a proven tool to reduce infiltration by ninety-percent. This line should be enhanced and strengthened by the use of non-lethal land mines. This sprays a dye on potential intruders, and generates both a blinding light and a non-lethal explosion. The detonation of these mines also electronically alerts law enforcement authorities to potential intruder's exact location on the border.
It is not that difficult, in time, to solve this problem. Will it be a costly process? Yes. However, allowing illegals to remain in this country and sponge social programs and not pay their taxes will cost a heck of a lot more in the long run.
"Arizona's immigration law is unconstitutional ..."
That's what the Supreme Court decision will determine. And so far, even the President's own Solicitor General, Sonia Sotomayor, Obama's appointee to the Court, supports.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Most of those that complain about the Arizona law do not favor the mandated use of E-Verify. Why? Because it would be an effective, although not perfect, way to finally control illegal immigration.
The Arizona law and others like it are imperfect and deserve criticism, but they are the direct result of the Federal Government having immigration laws on the books that are not enforced.
We have de-facto open borders. Either we need to change our laws to remove the de-facto and just have open borders or we need to mandate E-Verify, sanction and fine businesses who hire illegals, start a 'bracero' program ansd start to enforce are own laws.
Most people pretty much know a real and transparent open border policy would not fly with Americans so we have what we have, which is a total farce.
Michael
"You want to put the blame on someone for illegal immigration? Blame big corporations and local businesses for hiring illegal immigrants in the first place."
I totally agree. I totally agree with using e-verify. I don't blame people for being upset about paying taxes to provide emergency services and education to the children of illegal immigrants. But why doesn't this anger extend to the businesses who are the real culprits in this. They are getting cheaper labor and making more profits and we're getting stuck with the bill.
Don't you just love Capitalism?
Jim,
Based on the lack of democratic support for E-Verify, it appears democrats want to keep our borders open to appease and garner the Hispanic vote.
Jim Weber,
Yes, I do love capitalism. Capitalism is people doing whatever it takes to make the largest profit possible. Businesses hire illegals, pay them less, charge us the same, and keep the extra profits.
Government is supposed to be there to say, whoa, this is just too unfair. We need to enforce our own immigration laws and force these businesses to stop hiring illegals.
And this is where out capitalistic/government system has broken down. Mandated E-Verify could help fix alot of what is wrong.
Michael
It appears that any politician wanting reelection, should be singing the praises of E-Verify and enforcing American borders. Any of you politicians have the courage to do so now? There are plenty of voters wanting to see this be supported!!!!
Great comments and discussion here so far. Something needs to be done before our country turns into a third world mess.
Blessings and Peace,
Star
Michael Casler reveals something important:
"Yes, I do love capitalism. Capitalism is people doing whatever it takes to make the largest profit possible."
He then goes on to understand the necessity for government to reign in the short sighted harmful aspects of capitalism albeit without any sense of treating those here out of extreme poverty and desperation with dignity, compassion, and decency. Now if only we could go back to the earlier time when migrant workers easily came up and went back around the seasonal work. But no, conservatives have to treat people who don't look like us as less than human. They lack empathy, compassion, thought, and wisdom. Other than that they remain human...just the worst kind of humans that walk the planet.
Just another nutcase attempting to justify illegal activity.
Congress and ICE should've enforced the laws and passed a law that holds people accountable for hiring illegals, however, this isn't what occurred. States have provided illegal's safe havens and free crap that helped this along as well.
Illegal is illegal, nothing else matters and all the dung liberals spew from the lips is just that, dung. What most of America finds funny is that the liberal trolls actually believe the dung spewed from their leaders lips.
Arizona laws should be allowed. Deport all of them.
So what is the error rate of e-verify? It used to be quite large because the records it searched were themselves corrupted and incomplete. Back when I had some experience with using it regularly, it had about a 20% false positive rate -- and a much higher false negative rate. Have things improved enough so it will not deny work to American citizens (which is what it was doing previously)? Does it really work now -- or is this just another matter of hoping it is so and then declaring that it must be so?
I guess we can get rid of the US Supreme Court,Mr Parker here will be deciding what's "constitutional" and what's not from here on out.
Hey, haven't you heard? It's now "racist" to use the word "illegal" when describing, um, illegals. The left just can't get any nuttier, can it? As for "profiling" illegals? They are, um, illegal, are they not? Go home, get in line, apply for legal entry and America, as always, will welcome you with open arms (that is, of course, unless you are Irish, Jewish, Polish, or colored). Man up, illegals!
RefNV
By executive order. all Federal Government Contractors are required to use E-verify. This was challenged in court as unconstitutional by the U. S. Chamber of Commerce. To the best of my knowledge, the USCOC has no affiliation to (or sympathy for) the Democratic Party.
Accuracy of E-Verify:
Politifact:
"The most current data says that overall, it was inaccurate between 2.3 and 5.7 percent of the time, according to Westat. For legal workers, its error rate was between 0.6 percent and 1 percent"
http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statem...
Congress failed to budget the agencies with sufficient resources. It is NOT about racial anything. It's about citizenship. If you're not a citizen you have NO RIGHT TO BE HERE. We do not need and do not want ANY illegal immigrants. They must all go back. While many employers are not to blame they are responsible for perpetuating the situation. Simple legislation to INSIST that employers not hire and do not pay illegals would result in prompt and dramatic increases in self deportation and decrease future illegal immigration. E-verify can be updated and maintained much more inexpensively that deportation hearings for 12 million illegals.
Jim,
I don't know why liberal states like California and Illinois explicitly prohibit California municipalities and Illinois employers from using E-Verify. Strange.
RefNV
Re: Illinois and Californis -- I believe Illinois reversed that law in 2009. As for California, there must be something in the water out there. Either way I'm for e-verify and I've written letters to the editor in the Sun in recent years saying just that.
Michael Parker - I could not agree with you more. If the corporations and the rich would stop hiring illegals for cheap labor we would not have an issue. Laws currently on the books need to be enforced and those that hire illegals need to be fined for their actions.
Jim,
You're right. "Illinois enacted legislation in 2008 that barred all companies in the state from using E-Verify. A federal district court ruled in 2009 that the law violated the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution, and the law was rescinded".
Makes you wonder why Illinois would want to ban employers from verifying legal immigrants.
I am concerned about the effects of e-verify, and the infrastructure and the costs involved. I think it is another case similar to gun registration, where law abiding citizens will all comply.
Most level headed economist think that E-verify will only force workers and bad employers further underground, lower the floor on the labor market and be a disaster for legal workers and honest employers trying to navigate an error-ridden government program.
As a preview of what we can expect to see, Elton Gallegly, chair of the House Subcommittee on Immigration, has already held hearings that tried to pit Latinos against African Americans. (His hometown paper, the Ventura County Star, reported on March 1, 2011 "Immigration hearing turns into racial battle.") He even had a hearing designed to create tension between native-born citizens and naturalized citizens, which Rep. Xavier Becerra (D-CA) blasted as "scapegoating on steroids." At the hearing, Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO) said:
I am concerned by the majority's attempt to manufacture tension between African-Americans and immigrant communities. It seems as though they would like for our communities to think about immigration in terms of 'us versus them,' and I reject that notion.
As we have seen, we will get a handful of black and brown apologists for the far right to testify before Congress and show up on TV as experts; and for Reps. Alan West, Tim Scott and the new Latino conservative Members of Congress to see this as their day in the sun.
E-verify might very well be political suicide for Republicans, but they don't seem to mind that.
"Lamar Smith will turn into the best Latino organizer that we have. If that's what he wants, God bless him. It's not helping his party," Medina said. "Anytime something like that comes forward and they use it as an attack weapon" it helps to make the case to Latinos and immigrants on why they need to become citizens, why they need to vote, and why they need candidates on their side."
Just enforce the laws on the books. Offer a reward for the names of people employing illegals and the problem can be solved. It will also show us if we need to allow more guest workers. I truly believe that Americans will shovel crap all day if paid a decent wage.
Criminal invaders are criminals by definition, its time to send them all home and stop paying americans to sit on their bums and sucking the life out of this country. Until we get a pro-American regeme in office the public burden of supporting the criminal invader should be shifter to the employers and the country of orign.
Mark,
I am always hesitant to respond to you since you have pre-conceived (but inaccurate) notions about what I am all about, but here goes:
I do favor a path to citizenship for illegals already here. I don't think it would be fair to grant that but because of the numbers and how long they have been allowed to stay, I don't think there is any real choice.
You say 'Now if only we could go back to the earlier time when migrant workers easily came up and went back around the seasonal work.' That would be nice except there is still more opportunity here than in Mexico, so that illegals want to stay here and not return to Mexico. In addition, many business have discovered that they can make a larger profit by hiring and exploiting illegals. As long as that is so, if we don't control immigration, we will have what we have now... defacto open borders and a huge INS sticking a finger in a big leak in the dam. It is expensive, damaging to many lives, unfair to people who want to come here illegally and legally, etc.
I do not favor open borders..defacto or otherwise. Mandated E-Verify, a bracero program, a path to citizenship for those already here is what we need.
In any system or with anything else, some people are going to be treated unfairly, disadvantaged, etc. That's life Mark. Nothing is perfect, but having a defacto open border and then making illegals try to live under the radar is just about the worst system we could have. I don't want the country I live in to allow uncontrolled immigration. If you'll notice, few other countries allow that... and for good reason. We shouldn't either.
Michael
It's too early to tell how the U.S. Supreme Court is going to go on this issue.
But I'm pretty sure that some things they are considering are these:
First, the criminal profiling. This law basically says that anyone that looks foreign is automatically checked to see if they are a U.S. citizen according to this Arizona law.
Besides the fact this law inadvertently groups all Latinos as illegal aliens. Don't matter if they are American citizens or not. Now the burden has been shifted for Latino Americans to CONTINUALLY ON THE SPOT EVERY TIME THEY STEP OUT THE DOOR to prove they are Americans.
This will lead to Arizona driving people, not illegal aliens, but citizens of America, out of their State. The degradation of Arizona will begin if these laws go into effect.
Second, this Arizona law seems to be more Tea/Republican Party partisan than it is being put forth to address a problem. It is a known fact the Federal Government, as it stands today, is doing more than any other administration has ever done about the illegal immigrant issues. And is continuing to do. No matter how much Arizona says to the contrary.
This issue will not ever go away. You ask any Border Control Agent what will solve this problem and they will tell you the only solution is for the Government of Mexico to improve their economy and provide a standard of living for them that will make it implausible for anyone to cross the border. That's it. Until then, you build a fence, they will go around it, over it, under it and through it. Especially when they raise their standard of living 300 percent by just coming over.
And lastly, the part I really don't like is this. And it has nothing to do with any political party. Coming from a law enforcement backgound, this new Arizona law is placing more and more duties upon every law enforcement official in Arizona. As a reminder, they already have enough to do. Now another vague law, and all it's sub-texts, has been thrown into the mix to limit their abilities at crime prevention and law enforcement.
Ultimately, this will make Arizona go down the tubes.
The whole point I'm making is this all won't make the problem go away. But it will cause other problems to sprout from enactment of these laws, if they go into effect.
Nearly every study that I've read over the last 40 years reflects that immigration leads to an expansion of aggregate demand, business activity and business creation. The period in the mid 2000s probably saw more illegal immigrants in the United States than any other period in US history. We also saw one of the lowest unemployment rates in US history and very high output. A great deal of business creation results from immigration.
Currently in the Silicon Valley 70% of new hires are from India.
Both legal and illegal immigration have been a net positive for this country ever since it was founded.
"You want to put the blame on someone for illegal immigration? Blame big corporations and local businesses for hiring illegal immigrants in the first place."
Parker -- hardly. It is no employer's job to police anything but their own business interests. Since each employee is required to have SS#, which is then submitted to the tax authorities on hiring, gives the proof of the new employee's status. E-verify, etc., besides being unConstitutional, is just more useless red tape to give more bureaucrats job security.
"I heartily accept the motto, 'That government is best which governs least'; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically." -- Henry David Thoreau 1849 "On the Duty of Civil Disobedience"
http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/immigr...
Many of the new businesses and a great deal of the new technological innovation isn't coming from the dumbbells in this country that can't balance their checkbooks.
"This law basically says that anyone that looks foreign is automatically checked to see if they are a U.S. citizen according to this Arizona law."
False.
I lived in France for two years. They pull you over randomly at highway exits to check citizen/drivers license status. They knew I was an American the moment I spoke my broken French. I carried all my credentials with me all the time. No sweat. That's not asking too much for legal immigrants to carry documentation. Hurt feelings is not an excuse to not check at all. Democrats do not favor E-Verify because it upsets their perceived Hispanic voting block. Democrats want open borders, we get it.
Obama/Biden 2012
"E-Verify is Dead - Open U.S. Borders are Alive"
you think the price of gas is high? Wait till you see the price of fruits and vegetables when American farmers have to pay people $10 an hour to $20 an hour to work in the fields 12 hours a day.
80 years ago were bringing Mexicans into this country to work the slaughterhouses. Americans refused to slaughter cattle and work knee deep in blood day in and day out.
Ref.... I love going back and forth with you and respect your opinion but let's not make crap up. My entire family is from Germany. I have spent a great deal of time in both Germany and England with relatives.I have traveled back and forth since the 1950s. I have never been stopped for anything in Europe.
Europeans make a tremendous amount of money from American tourism. Why the hell would they want to stop us?
In 1994 I rented a farm house in Normandy for the 50th anniversary of D-Day. I took my wife, son and several friends. We stayed for weeks and drove thousands of miles. None of us were stopped for anything and the security was enormous because there were dignitaries present from all over the world.
I WAS pulled over for a traffic violation in Cairns Australia. This is the only time I have ever been stopped outside of the United States in 50 years of travel.
European countries do have strict immigration laws. It's probably why many of their economies have been stagnant for years.
RefNV: I also was periodically checked for my "verblijfvergunning" while I lived in Holland. They realize that unregulated immigration is a tremendous drain on the country. All EU countries perform some sort of check regularly. They will inspect certain businesses monthly and if the workers do not have the proper documents they are escorted to a waiting van. The employers are then fined and if they are in violation to often they surrender their license to do business. I had no problem with showing my residency card because I had RESPECT for the country I was living in!
When I first returned to the US they had staged raids in McDonalds in Reno. They took away a few workers but the ACLU put a stop to that.
Something that calls himself Mark Shaffer seems to think that we should all just get along, cumbya. Perhaps he should read Dr. Victor Davis Hansons essays on the affects of illegal immigration has had on the Central Valley in California.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/netherla...
John... Check the GDP growth rate in the Netherlands. They are hard-pressed to hit 1.5%. You need a couple points above that just to get substantial job creation.
To look at one of the slowest growing economies in the world as an argument against immigration is pretty weak. Our population has doubled since World War II with a GDP growth rate of almost 3 1/2%. Much of our increased population is due to immigration.
Hello John,
I lived in Arras, North of Paris off the A1. At the A1 exit leading to Arras, a policeman would point at cars randomly exiting. It was one policeman directing cars off the exit to park and 3 to 5 others checking our credentials once parked. I was directed to pull over three times during my two years in France and never had a problem. It was a quick check.
Immigration violations are just like every other crime that is committed by felons in this country. There are many hundreds of laws written to enforce the penalty for commiting these crimes but they are never really enforced. Every LEGAL HISPANIC in this country resents their countrymen being thrown out. They themselves went through the hoops to become LEGAL but they don't want their cousins to go through the same hoops.
"I am concerned by the majority's attempt to manufacture tension between African-Americans and immigrant communities. It seems as though they would like for our communities to think about immigration in terms of 'us versus them,' and I reject that notion."
DO YOU REJECT THAT NOTION? Really? Just for E-verify or across the board?
At the risk of being slightly off topic, tell me what nationality is Zimmerman? And Martin? What is being done in the community there and nationwide? What is your position about Zimmerman even without and before having the facts and circumstances of the case?
Can't have it both ways poster. This where I say "Gotcha" and the Judge says: As a lawyer I'm always on the look out for the exact moment a person's argument falls apart.
Carmine A. DiFazio
The user "bite" has a strange definition of "every" it seems when he asserts "Every LEGAL HISPANIC in this country resents their countrymen being thrown out."
According to a recent poll by Quinnipiac University 49% of Hispanics oppose the Arizona law and 47% approve of it. Overall the numbers are 68% in favor and only 27% opposed.
The poll is here: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and...
RefNV:
You are just frothing at the mouth with your desire to control everything.
Here's the math:
cities 10,016
comunities 147
municipality 1
town 4,431
urbana 78
village 3,770
------------------
total 18,443
19,000 towns and cities x an average of 5 enforcement officers = 95,000 coppers x $45,000 salary and bene's = 4.3 billion Dolaro's + court cost and additional court personnel = 6-7 billion dollars to pull gramma over.
You really want this weeks award???
France is the most visited country in the world with close to 83 million visitors last year. You're the only one that I know of that's ever complained about their onerous checks. Maybe you had a streak of bad luck.
A substantial problem that we have is in the area of entitlements. Massive numbers of people are pulling benefits out of the system and very few are paying into it.
I think we ought to let anyone under 30 come into this country that has some type of job skill. People can't afford to have babies anymore so the future of this nation relies on young vibrant immigrants.
Or we could adopt the policy of the Netherlands and see 1% percent growth until the baby boomers die off in 30 to 40 years
Zippert: We are making a distinction between legal and illegal immigration.
BTW, as an aside: I had to pay for my step-children to learn Dutch so they could continue their schooling. This is quite unlike our country where it seems we are responsible to have Spanish speakers in our school system.
John... You are making the distinction between legal and illegal immigration. I am not. GDP is loosely defined as currently produce domestic final output of goods and services in the aggregate. When a guy picks a head of lettuce it eventually adds to GDP. Whether the guy is here legally or illegally is of no consequence from an output perspective. Because we make the distinction between legal and illegal immigration these people don't pay taxes. They don't pay into Social Security or Medicare. They don't have medical insurance. This is what is causing the negative externality in the economy. If people live and work here they should be paying into all of the above. We get the benefit of greater output but the unfunded entitlement liabilities aren't being lowered because of the underground economy.
when you get people were willing to work 12 hours a day for 50 bucks a day you get cheap fruits and vegetables.
In Japan a cantaloupe is $20.
http://www2.econ.iastate.edu/classes/eco...
JeffFromVegas "You really want this weeks award???"
Sorry Jeff, your post doesn't make sense. The theme of my point was if you are a legal immigrant then have your credentials with you. This would include your passport, work visa and driver's ID. And don't be a baby about not carrying these documents. If you carry these documents then no sweat. Why is that so difficult for liberal democrats? Why are they blocking the use of E-Verify? Yet more evidence that democrats lack any solutions to the problem. Until democrats prove otherwise, we must assume then that democrats prefer open borders.
Interesting to see that the people here that are the most outspoken against government intrusion into private lives are the first to endorse that intrusion by requiring something like e-verify!
So it seems that carrying government documentation should not be required for freedom loving white americans but would seem to be OK for Latinos?
Hypocrites every one of you! I hope you have your SSN card with you at all times in AZ because there is no way for the local police to identify a REAL citizen due to the fact US citizens are not required to carry official government papers! Drivers licenses are not good enough..
So you tell me.. unless you racially profile latinos and then ask them for documents they aren't required to carry.. how can you positively identify an illegal from a US citizen? The letter writer is correct.. AZ is a racist state that has little standing in federal law to inquire about citizenship.
Maybe they would like to issue official AZ papers to all their freedom loving gun carrying citizens? It would make it much easier!
Gerry states: "France is the most visited country in the world with close to 83 million visitors last year. You're the only one that I know of that's ever complained about their onerous checks. Maybe you had a streak of bad luck."
Gerry, You weren't around long enough to know by just visiting. I lived in France for 24 months. In and out of the same exit 5 days a week. If you live there, you'll know about these random stops but if you don't then you don't.
Here is a site below that references the random police stops as well:
"We've spent many years holidaying in France and travelling there on business and never used to be stopped by the Gendarmerie. But in recent years there has been a marked increase in random roadside checks. In fact in the summer of 2005 we were not only stopped, but passed roadside checks on an almost daily basis in Normandy! So our advice is make sure your vehicle is legal, that you have all the necessary papers and all those little extras you are expected to carry on the continent such as spare light bulbs, warning triangle.... If in doubt, refer to our advice on "preparing your car" and "rules of the road"."
http://www.france4families.com/drivingin...
The reason that liberals like myself haven't come up with a solution to the problem is that we don't see a problem.
I think having vast numbers of people that are willing to work for next to nothing is absolutely fabulous. Look at the developed countries that don't have cheap labor and you see astronomical prices for almost everything. Almost nothing is cheap in Europe.
Many Mexicans are currently leaving the country because of the anti-immigration rhetoric and lackluster job growth. My next-door neighbor who moved here from California a year ago is paying $85 a day for a maid to clean her house. In California she could get the same work for $50 a day. The Mexicans are leaving Vegas in droves, baby.
The price were going to be paying for backbreaking work is going up.
I haven't been to France since 1994. It appears they're checking more people than they used to. If this is the case I apologize.
"So it seems that carrying government documentation should not be required for freedom loving white americans but would seem to be OK for Latinos?"
I'm white and I carry my license and auto insurance every where I go. When I travel overseas, I carry my passport with me everywhere I go, however, in that country I visit the locals are not required to carry their passport, just their state-sponsored ID. No sweat. I don't feel victimized.
Zip: The reason that "checkpoints" have increased is because of the financial drain on the social safety nets. France and Germany would like to temporarily reinstall border checkpoints because of illegal immigration which goes against the Schengen (SP?) agreement (the basis for the EU). It is interesting that the indigenous people resent the intrusion of "foreigners" into their systems thus giving rise to the extreme right-wing political leaders such as Pim Fortyne, Geert Wilders and Marine La Pen.
the financial crisis and near collapse of economies the world over have caused massive dislocations. The recovery has been slow and there is excess capacity the world over.
Governments need scapegoats and immigrants are easy targets. Massive numbers of immigrants are brought into Europe to rebuild the continent after World War II. Many of these immigrants have never assimilated into European societies. Many live in near ghettos on the outskirts of major cities.
In this country immigrants have always been able to assimilate into general society. We have always had a very positive view of immigration and have favored strong economic growth. Europe is different. They have a slow growth high entitlement model which has never favored strong immigration.
If the Europeans think they can solve their economic problems by putting up checkpoints they have another guest coming. Their societies are aging just like ours is.
Keeping the young people out and the old people in is going to cause problems in Europe for decades to come. In my humble opinion.
A wonderful day to all!
Mr. RefNV your drivers license is not proof of citizenship and your auto insurance card remark made me an my fellow officers laugh... can you please show us some proof of citizenship that identifies you as a citizen as I believe you to be an illegal based on your racial profile. If you cannot produce this we will have to take you into custody until we can verify your status.. the state of Arizona thanks you for your cooperation! Place your hands on the vehicle please...
No we don't do this to people that look european or white.. why do you ask?
In the future I suggest you have your passport or birth certificate with you in case you are stopped again for a DWL (driving while Latino).
@bimmerdude: if caring all these proofs of ID are required than so be it. I wouldn't have a problem with it. Why should I beings I'm a LEGAL citizen. You make a comment that you and fellow officers laugh at the fact that carrying ID is a joke. I find it hard to believe that if you are an officer then why would you laugh at the Federal law of the land?
Bummerdude,
U.S. federal law requires all aliens over the age of 14 who remain in the United States for longer than 30 days to register with the U.S. government, and to have registration documents in their possession at all times.
What say you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_SB_...
It is my learned opinion that based upon the patterns of behavior of all the people living in Las Vegas, the highest threat -- the most severe threat we have of an event that could be called a potential terrorist threat against a segment of Americans called progressives or liberals comes from people dressed in either a Chicago White Sox Jersey or a Chicago White Sox Ball cap.
This would be based upon published writings of known radicals in the area.
Would that be profiling?
Mr. Sun,
Does the author of the letter or do you assign a title to the comment?
Thanks in advance for answering.
Purgatory
JeffFromVegas,
The threat to liberals & progressives is running out of other people's money which has already occurred.
Obama/Biden 2012
"The Economy is Dead - Joblessness is Alive"
Mr GOGO ... profiling is a required aspect of any type of law enforcement. However targeted profiling in everyday activities goes beyond the police powers granted the government. There is a thing called probable cause and race alone does not always fit that requirement. There is also a thing called Jurisdiction which is being decided now in Court.
Just to make it fair for all AZ residents, legal or not, perhaps we should amend the laws to say that for every hispanic person stopped to identify their status the police must also randomly stop a non latino and require the same proof of citizenship. Lets see how they enjoy the harassment and if they can produce the exact same documentation that is being required of the Hispanics? I'm sure you would fail as would most US citizens. We are not required to carry this form of documentation as free people in a free Country called the US of A. In the US the Government does not own the citizens so we are not required by them to carry papers. Sound familiar????? Its little brittle document we call the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Would you like to be randomly stopped as a US citizen and questioned about your citizenship Mr. WHITE socks?? I'm sure you don't worry because you don't fit the PROFILE.. and you have your drivers license and Insurance card with you!!! hahaha
bimmerdude,
I have no problems being stopped and asked for documentation. It doesn't hurt my feelings. I take it by your tone that your feelings would be hurt bimmerdude? So sad.
RefNV:
The police are not our border guards, and every time they are pulled off the streets to do a citizenship check is one more criminals time to commit another one.
I mean you are -- in a sick politically perverted way -- arguing here with a guy who would, if needed, give his life to save you or your families life.
Show some respect.
JeffFromVegas,
Another post from you that doesn't make sense. SB 1070 requires that state law enforcement officers attempt to determine an individual's immigration status during a "lawful stop, detention or arrest when there is reasonable suspicion that the individual is an illegal immigrant". When I lived in France, I had my documents with me at all times and knew my broken French might make me a candidate to show my documents. It didn't hurt my feelings at all. Why should it? Nothing to hide on my part.
"The Arizona Act makes it a state misdemeanor crime for an alien to be in Arizona without carrying the required documents, requires that state law enforcement officers attempt to determine an individual's immigration status during a "lawful stop, detention or arrest" when there is reasonable suspicion that the individual is an illegal immigrant, bars state or local officials or agencies from restricting enforcement of federal immigration laws,and cracks down on those sheltering, hiring and transporting illegal aliens.The paragraph on intent in the legislation says it embodies an "attrition through enforcement" doctrine."
RefNV:
Your whining doesn't change the facts.
You are -- in a sick politically perverted way -- arguing here with a guy who would, if needed, give his life to save you or your families life.
And showing him no respect.
If you can't see that foreign looking Americans going to the 7-11 to get a bag of skittles will need to get past George Zimmerman, the Security guard at your gated community and now the local police will expect you to carry a briefcase with all of your documents proving you are a legal little brown skinned curly haired American.
You want your police state so bad, you can almost feel it through this web-site.
JeffFromVegas,
SB 1070 requires the state law enforcement officers to attempt to determine an individual's immigration status during a "lawful stop, detention or arrest when there is reasonable suspicion that the individual is an illegal immigrant". I'll repeat it three times:
1. during a **lawful stop**, **detention** or **arrest** when there is reasonable suspicion that the individual is an illegal immigrant"
2. during a **lawful stop**, **detention** or **arrest** when there is reasonable suspicion that the individual is an illegal immigrant"
3. during a **lawful stop**, **detention** or **arrest** when there is reasonable suspicion that the individual is an illegal immigrant"
Jeff, notice that enforcement officers are **not** to just **casually** ask for anyone's documents willy-nilly, without reason or cause from a person who's strolling down the street.
The key words are lawful stop, detention or arrest. In France, if I was lawfully stopped, detained or arrested, they could easily tell I was from the states. Additionally, stop and identify statutes require it.
Michael Casler could learn something from this (along with the other reactionary conservatives):
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/20/opinio...
"Throw away the arguments that immigrants are tax leeches. On the contrary. They pay more in taxes than they consume in services. They all pay sales taxes. Illegal immigrants who use fake Social Security numbers to get hired pay income and payroll taxes -- but don't collect Social Security and are ineligible for Medicaid. The amount of unclaimed Social Security tax has more than doubled since the 1980's, to roughly $189 billion. Because immigrants tend to be younger and healthier than native born workers, they use government services more sparingly. A comprehensive study of immigration and its economic effects -- "The New Americans: Economic, Demographic, and Fiscal Effects of Immigration," by James Smith and Barry Edmonston for the National Research Council in 1997 -- summed up its conclusions this way: Because immigrants on average have less education than the native-born, they earn less and pay lower taxes. But immigrants also consume far fewer services. As a result: the average immigrant pays nearly $1,800 more in taxes than he or she costs in benefits, even when you factor in the cost of public education for his or her children."
@refnv: Obviously bimmerdude just can't read and also doesn't understand the law. Seems odd he's in law enforcement.
Mark,
You know they are brain damaged and if their parents were liberals they'd pawn them for used parts to people needing transplants. There is no getting through to them.
Good try though. I enjoy your info regarding right wing derangement & verifiably incorrect information syndrome.
Keep up the good flow of info.
Blame corporations for illegal immigration?
Isn't that a bit like blaming banks for robberies?
I don't have anything against immigrants, as long as they are here legally. I don't understand the argument that we have low produce prices solely because of illegals. Is the job below what 'legal' immigrants will do? When they become legal do they then becime Americans that won't do the job? Very puzzling.
Comment removed by moderator. - -
RefNV:
Blah blah blah (Great Iggy tune)
"The key words are lawful stop"
During a **lawful stop**, **detention**"
RefNV:
Blah blah blah (Great Iggy tune)
"The key words are lawful stop"
During a **lawful stop**, **detention**"
RefNV:
Blah blah blah (Great Iggy tune)
"The key words are lawful stop"
During a **lawful stop**, **detention**"
(I guess you like the 3 times thingy)
So when Zimmerman calls 911 next time and the sucka don't die and the PO Lease shows up an the thinks dude is an illegal an he ain't gots no papers on him, does he get put in jail till he proves he is an American or do they let em come back 2Morrow?
JeffFromVegas,
Assuming you don't have your state issued ID, you simply identify yourself. Name, address, age, etc.
I don't think there is any profiling, they are looking for people from Mexico that look like they are from Mexico, so probably bright white people from England will not be bothered, but then they can't sneak in to the US so easy. If I was in China I would look different from the rest of the people and if asked for a document that allows me to be there I would not think it was profiling and be happy to provide it. If I was in Mexico and the same thing happened no problem. The legal immigrants here should be outraged enough by the extra security and want to help get rid of the illegal ones, but I doubt that will happen..
Jeff, I have no interest in joining the shallow thinkers. I respectfully reject your invitation.
The prospect of the Arizona law being upheld apparently brings out the Chicken Little in some people. It will however be a start in helping to enforce federal law at the local level. I am asked for identification whenever I cash a check, use my credit card, or go to the library. It certainly isn't a hardship.
RefNV:
Which season of "Leave it to Beaver" are you living in?
RefNV:
The Supreme Court will uphold Arizona's Immigration Law despite the letter writer's opinions and the law's detractors here who think and believe otherwise. Let them go on and on with their rants and raves as much as they want. When the Court's decision is issued, you'll have the last words: "I told you so."
As the saying goes: He who laughs last, laughs best.
Carmine A. DiFazio
That's fine Michael Parker, but why can't we demand that they go through the proper channels and become citizens and be expected to pay taxes and pay for their healthcare and everything else the same as the rest of us? I agree with you in that I blame our government and the employers, but I don't feel sorry for illegals that get profiled, caught, arrested, deported etc., they carry the blame as well. Enough of the preferential treatment and "whoah is me," sob story defense. Any of you that think these are all a bunch of innocent angels, go talk to some of the ranch and farm owners in southern arizona and elsewhere that have to put up with the violence, drugs, trespassing, theft, and damaged herds and/or crops some of these folks bring with them while galavanting illegally through here. If you're so concerned for them, tryn to stop them from doing it so less of them will be hurt and/or killed by their fellow border crossers, the mules, bandits, and/or the unforgiving desert heat and sun.
I love it when the nutcases spin the facts on law breakers. Enforcing the law does not promote racism, it is enforcing the law. Anyone else who isn't carrying a valid ID when asked by the police, it suspect and the police have the right to run our finger prints to verify our name and background check. Just because these people are brown skinned, does not constitute racism. If a white person were detained, they'd be asked for ID, that isn't racism but you nutcases think just, any color but white, liberals scream racism.
Liberals keep the race card alive and well by their own actions, not the Americans. When liberals quit using the race card and stop hyphenating by nationality to keep their mindless trolls sucking of the freebies, America will become a better place.
Dathfrodo:
My comments were a bit harsh, I would like to apologize, so I will. I am sorry for the comments about the water.
Bless you and your family
Graciously accepted Jeff.
And to yours.
JeffFromVegas,
On occasion I may disagree with you but I do admire your passion.
Tell you what Tim Wiggins,
Stop being one and I will be happy to not point out you are being one.
RefNV and Darthfrodo:
Thank you both for the kind words. I was pleasantly surprised by both of you.
Jeff
"Enforcing the law does not promote racism, it is enforcing the law."
Isn't this just what Hitler said? And wasn't everything he did completely legal? Except maybe for invading other countries without justification -- although that must be legal too or we wouldn't have done it ourselves.
Shaffer -- Shaffer -- Shaffer, reading the liberal posts, it simply reaffirms what most of America thinks of liberal agenda; vote for anyone but Obama, kudos!
Talk, talk, talk and more talk.... All the so-called 'representatives' (you know, the ones elected who are SUPPOSED to represent WE THE PEOPLE (but rarely ever do) ) all these 'representatives' do is TALK TALK TALK...it's very clear, at least to me it is, that NEITHER PARTY really wants to put an end to this madness... the illegals benefit the needs of BOTH PARTIES... I say it's time to stop the incessant talking and take action... once and for all - secure the damn borders and start deporting - NOW!
oh, and btw, Arizona rocks! At least they're TRYING to do something.... more than I can say for the FEDS.
Tim, Show by weight of data that the nonsense you espouse is "...what most of America thinks of (sic) liberal agenda;..." Speak for your own ignorance but do not presume to speak for "...most..." Americans. Millions of citizens, many former military like me, disagree with your fascism. Also, you could learn to spell a simple name as it is my real one...Timmy.