Las Vegas Sun

September 2, 2014

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Letter to the editor:

Immigration law is regressive

Arizona’s immigration law is unconstitutional and promotes racism by sanctioning the profiling of a certain group of people.

I thought we had settled this profiling during the fight for civil rights in the 1960s. We have gone backward in our laws and have not progressed at all.

You want to put the blame on someone for illegal immigration? Blame big corporations and local businesses for hiring illegal immigrants in the first place.

They would not have come here in droves if they hadn’t had the work. So blame the employers and Congress for this mess.

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  1. Who are you trying to kid anyway!!.

  2. Don't forget that it was Harry Reid, the man who says there is no problem with illegal workers in Nevada, who removed the requirement to use E-Verify from the stimulus bill. There is no way that he will ever allow a bill like H.R. 2885 to even come up for a vote in the Senate.

    Requiring the use of E-Verify by every employer would come close to eliminating all illegal immigration essentially overnight. We have empirical proof that if there are no jobs to be had illegal immigration declines and those already here self-deport. This has been proven by what has happened during the Great Recession.

  3. Most of those that complain about the Arizona law do not favor the mandated use of E-Verify. Why? Because it would be an effective, although not perfect, way to finally control illegal immigration.

    The Arizona law and others like it are imperfect and deserve criticism, but they are the direct result of the Federal Government having immigration laws on the books that are not enforced.

    We have de-facto open borders. Either we need to change our laws to remove the de-facto and just have open borders or we need to mandate E-Verify, sanction and fine businesses who hire illegals, start a 'bracero' program ansd start to enforce are own laws.

    Most people pretty much know a real and transparent open border policy would not fly with Americans so we have what we have, which is a total farce.

    Michael

  4. "You want to put the blame on someone for illegal immigration? Blame big corporations and local businesses for hiring illegal immigrants in the first place."

    I totally agree. I totally agree with using e-verify. I don't blame people for being upset about paying taxes to provide emergency services and education to the children of illegal immigrants. But why doesn't this anger extend to the businesses who are the real culprits in this. They are getting cheaper labor and making more profits and we're getting stuck with the bill.

    Don't you just love Capitalism?

  5. Jim Weber,

    Yes, I do love capitalism. Capitalism is people doing whatever it takes to make the largest profit possible. Businesses hire illegals, pay them less, charge us the same, and keep the extra profits.

    Government is supposed to be there to say, whoa, this is just too unfair. We need to enforce our own immigration laws and force these businesses to stop hiring illegals.

    And this is where out capitalistic/government system has broken down. Mandated E-Verify could help fix alot of what is wrong.

    Michael

  6. It appears that any politician wanting reelection, should be singing the praises of E-Verify and enforcing American borders. Any of you politicians have the courage to do so now? There are plenty of voters wanting to see this be supported!!!!

    Great comments and discussion here so far. Something needs to be done before our country turns into a third world mess.

    Blessings and Peace,
    Star

  7. Michael Casler reveals something important:
    "Yes, I do love capitalism. Capitalism is people doing whatever it takes to make the largest profit possible."

    He then goes on to understand the necessity for government to reign in the short sighted harmful aspects of capitalism albeit without any sense of treating those here out of extreme poverty and desperation with dignity, compassion, and decency. Now if only we could go back to the earlier time when migrant workers easily came up and went back around the seasonal work. But no, conservatives have to treat people who don't look like us as less than human. They lack empathy, compassion, thought, and wisdom. Other than that they remain human...just the worst kind of humans that walk the planet.

  8. Just another nutcase attempting to justify illegal activity.

    Congress and ICE should've enforced the laws and passed a law that holds people accountable for hiring illegals, however, this isn't what occurred. States have provided illegal's safe havens and free crap that helped this along as well.

    Illegal is illegal, nothing else matters and all the dung liberals spew from the lips is just that, dung. What most of America finds funny is that the liberal trolls actually believe the dung spewed from their leaders lips.

    Arizona laws should be allowed. Deport all of them.

  9. So what is the error rate of e-verify? It used to be quite large because the records it searched were themselves corrupted and incomplete. Back when I had some experience with using it regularly, it had about a 20% false positive rate -- and a much higher false negative rate. Have things improved enough so it will not deny work to American citizens (which is what it was doing previously)? Does it really work now -- or is this just another matter of hoping it is so and then declaring that it must be so?

  10. Hey, haven't you heard? It's now "racist" to use the word "illegal" when describing, um, illegals. The left just can't get any nuttier, can it? As for "profiling" illegals? They are, um, illegal, are they not? Go home, get in line, apply for legal entry and America, as always, will welcome you with open arms (that is, of course, unless you are Irish, Jewish, Polish, or colored). Man up, illegals!

  11. RefNV

    By executive order. all Federal Government Contractors are required to use E-verify. This was challenged in court as unconstitutional by the U. S. Chamber of Commerce. To the best of my knowledge, the USCOC has no affiliation to (or sympathy for) the Democratic Party.

  12. Congress failed to budget the agencies with sufficient resources. It is NOT about racial anything. It's about citizenship. If you're not a citizen you have NO RIGHT TO BE HERE. We do not need and do not want ANY illegal immigrants. They must all go back. While many employers are not to blame they are responsible for perpetuating the situation. Simple legislation to INSIST that employers not hire and do not pay illegals would result in prompt and dramatic increases in self deportation and decrease future illegal immigration. E-verify can be updated and maintained much more inexpensively that deportation hearings for 12 million illegals.

  13. RefNV

    Re: Illinois and Californis -- I believe Illinois reversed that law in 2009. As for California, there must be something in the water out there. Either way I'm for e-verify and I've written letters to the editor in the Sun in recent years saying just that.

  14. Michael Parker - I could not agree with you more. If the corporations and the rich would stop hiring illegals for cheap labor we would not have an issue. Laws currently on the books need to be enforced and those that hire illegals need to be fined for their actions.

  15. Criminal invaders are criminals by definition, its time to send them all home and stop paying americans to sit on their bums and sucking the life out of this country. Until we get a pro-American regeme in office the public burden of supporting the criminal invader should be shifter to the employers and the country of orign.

  16. Mark,

    I am always hesitant to respond to you since you have pre-conceived (but inaccurate) notions about what I am all about, but here goes:

    I do favor a path to citizenship for illegals already here. I don't think it would be fair to grant that but because of the numbers and how long they have been allowed to stay, I don't think there is any real choice.

    You say 'Now if only we could go back to the earlier time when migrant workers easily came up and went back around the seasonal work.' That would be nice except there is still more opportunity here than in Mexico, so that illegals want to stay here and not return to Mexico. In addition, many business have discovered that they can make a larger profit by hiring and exploiting illegals. As long as that is so, if we don't control immigration, we will have what we have now... defacto open borders and a huge INS sticking a finger in a big leak in the dam. It is expensive, damaging to many lives, unfair to people who want to come here illegally and legally, etc.

    I do not favor open borders..defacto or otherwise. Mandated E-Verify, a bracero program, a path to citizenship for those already here is what we need.

    In any system or with anything else, some people are going to be treated unfairly, disadvantaged, etc. That's life Mark. Nothing is perfect, but having a defacto open border and then making illegals try to live under the radar is just about the worst system we could have. I don't want the country I live in to allow uncontrolled immigration. If you'll notice, few other countries allow that... and for good reason. We shouldn't either.

    Michael

  17. It's too early to tell how the U.S. Supreme Court is going to go on this issue.

    But I'm pretty sure that some things they are considering are these:

    First, the criminal profiling. This law basically says that anyone that looks foreign is automatically checked to see if they are a U.S. citizen according to this Arizona law.

    Besides the fact this law inadvertently groups all Latinos as illegal aliens. Don't matter if they are American citizens or not. Now the burden has been shifted for Latino Americans to CONTINUALLY ON THE SPOT EVERY TIME THEY STEP OUT THE DOOR to prove they are Americans.

    This will lead to Arizona driving people, not illegal aliens, but citizens of America, out of their State. The degradation of Arizona will begin if these laws go into effect.

    Second, this Arizona law seems to be more Tea/Republican Party partisan than it is being put forth to address a problem. It is a known fact the Federal Government, as it stands today, is doing more than any other administration has ever done about the illegal immigrant issues. And is continuing to do. No matter how much Arizona says to the contrary.

    This issue will not ever go away. You ask any Border Control Agent what will solve this problem and they will tell you the only solution is for the Government of Mexico to improve their economy and provide a standard of living for them that will make it implausible for anyone to cross the border. That's it. Until then, you build a fence, they will go around it, over it, under it and through it. Especially when they raise their standard of living 300 percent by just coming over.

    And lastly, the part I really don't like is this. And it has nothing to do with any political party. Coming from a law enforcement backgound, this new Arizona law is placing more and more duties upon every law enforcement official in Arizona. As a reminder, they already have enough to do. Now another vague law, and all it's sub-texts, has been thrown into the mix to limit their abilities at crime prevention and law enforcement.

    Ultimately, this will make Arizona go down the tubes.

    The whole point I'm making is this all won't make the problem go away. But it will cause other problems to sprout from enactment of these laws, if they go into effect.

  18. Nearly every study that I've read over the last 40 years reflects that immigration leads to an expansion of aggregate demand, business activity and business creation. The period in the mid 2000s probably saw more illegal immigrants in the United States than any other period in US history. We also saw one of the lowest unemployment rates in US history and very high output. A great deal of business creation results from immigration.

    Currently in the Silicon Valley 70% of new hires are from India.

    Both legal and illegal immigration have been a net positive for this country ever since it was founded.

  19. "You want to put the blame on someone for illegal immigration? Blame big corporations and local businesses for hiring illegal immigrants in the first place."

    Parker -- hardly. It is no employer's job to police anything but their own business interests. Since each employee is required to have SS#, which is then submitted to the tax authorities on hiring, gives the proof of the new employee's status. E-verify, etc., besides being unConstitutional, is just more useless red tape to give more bureaucrats job security.

    "I heartily accept the motto, 'That government is best which governs least'; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically." -- Henry David Thoreau 1849 "On the Duty of Civil Disobedience"

  20. http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/immigr...
    Many of the new businesses and a great deal of the new technological innovation isn't coming from the dumbbells in this country that can't balance their checkbooks.

  21. you think the price of gas is high? Wait till you see the price of fruits and vegetables when American farmers have to pay people $10 an hour to $20 an hour to work in the fields 12 hours a day.

    80 years ago were bringing Mexicans into this country to work the slaughterhouses. Americans refused to slaughter cattle and work knee deep in blood day in and day out.

  22. Ref.... I love going back and forth with you and respect your opinion but let's not make crap up. My entire family is from Germany. I have spent a great deal of time in both Germany and England with relatives.I have traveled back and forth since the 1950s. I have never been stopped for anything in Europe.

    Europeans make a tremendous amount of money from American tourism. Why the hell would they want to stop us?

    In 1994 I rented a farm house in Normandy for the 50th anniversary of D-Day. I took my wife, son and several friends. We stayed for weeks and drove thousands of miles. None of us were stopped for anything and the security was enormous because there were dignitaries present from all over the world.

    I WAS pulled over for a traffic violation in Cairns Australia. This is the only time I have ever been stopped outside of the United States in 50 years of travel.

  23. European countries do have strict immigration laws. It's probably why many of their economies have been stagnant for years.

  24. RefNV: I also was periodically checked for my "verblijfvergunning" while I lived in Holland. They realize that unregulated immigration is a tremendous drain on the country. All EU countries perform some sort of check regularly. They will inspect certain businesses monthly and if the workers do not have the proper documents they are escorted to a waiting van. The employers are then fined and if they are in violation to often they surrender their license to do business. I had no problem with showing my residency card because I had RESPECT for the country I was living in!

    When I first returned to the US they had staged raids in McDonalds in Reno. They took away a few workers but the ACLU put a stop to that.

    Something that calls himself Mark Shaffer seems to think that we should all just get along, cumbya. Perhaps he should read Dr. Victor Davis Hansons essays on the affects of illegal immigration has had on the Central Valley in California.

  25. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/netherla...
    John... Check the GDP growth rate in the Netherlands. They are hard-pressed to hit 1.5%. You need a couple points above that just to get substantial job creation.

    To look at one of the slowest growing economies in the world as an argument against immigration is pretty weak. Our population has doubled since World War II with a GDP growth rate of almost 3 1/2%. Much of our increased population is due to immigration.

  26. The user "bite" has a strange definition of "every" it seems when he asserts "Every LEGAL HISPANIC in this country resents their countrymen being thrown out."

    According to a recent poll by Quinnipiac University 49% of Hispanics oppose the Arizona law and 47% approve of it. Overall the numbers are 68% in favor and only 27% opposed.

    The poll is here: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and...

  27. France is the most visited country in the world with close to 83 million visitors last year. You're the only one that I know of that's ever complained about their onerous checks. Maybe you had a streak of bad luck.

    A substantial problem that we have is in the area of entitlements. Massive numbers of people are pulling benefits out of the system and very few are paying into it.

    I think we ought to let anyone under 30 come into this country that has some type of job skill. People can't afford to have babies anymore so the future of this nation relies on young vibrant immigrants.

    Or we could adopt the policy of the Netherlands and see 1% percent growth until the baby boomers die off in 30 to 40 years

  28. Zippert: We are making a distinction between legal and illegal immigration.

    BTW, as an aside: I had to pay for my step-children to learn Dutch so they could continue their schooling. This is quite unlike our country where it seems we are responsible to have Spanish speakers in our school system.

  29. John... You are making the distinction between legal and illegal immigration. I am not. GDP is loosely defined as currently produce domestic final output of goods and services in the aggregate. When a guy picks a head of lettuce it eventually adds to GDP. Whether the guy is here legally or illegally is of no consequence from an output perspective. Because we make the distinction between legal and illegal immigration these people don't pay taxes. They don't pay into Social Security or Medicare. They don't have medical insurance. This is what is causing the negative externality in the economy. If people live and work here they should be paying into all of the above. We get the benefit of greater output but the unfunded entitlement liabilities aren't being lowered because of the underground economy.

  30. when you get people were willing to work 12 hours a day for 50 bucks a day you get cheap fruits and vegetables.

    In Japan a cantaloupe is $20.
    http://www2.econ.iastate.edu/classes/eco...

  31. The reason that liberals like myself haven't come up with a solution to the problem is that we don't see a problem.

    I think having vast numbers of people that are willing to work for next to nothing is absolutely fabulous. Look at the developed countries that don't have cheap labor and you see astronomical prices for almost everything. Almost nothing is cheap in Europe.

    Many Mexicans are currently leaving the country because of the anti-immigration rhetoric and lackluster job growth. My next-door neighbor who moved here from California a year ago is paying $85 a day for a maid to clean her house. In California she could get the same work for $50 a day. The Mexicans are leaving Vegas in droves, baby.

    The price were going to be paying for backbreaking work is going up.

  32. I haven't been to France since 1994. It appears they're checking more people than they used to. If this is the case I apologize.

  33. Zip: The reason that "checkpoints" have increased is because of the financial drain on the social safety nets. France and Germany would like to temporarily reinstall border checkpoints because of illegal immigration which goes against the Schengen (SP?) agreement (the basis for the EU). It is interesting that the indigenous people resent the intrusion of "foreigners" into their systems thus giving rise to the extreme right-wing political leaders such as Pim Fortyne, Geert Wilders and Marine La Pen.

  34. the financial crisis and near collapse of economies the world over have caused massive dislocations. The recovery has been slow and there is excess capacity the world over.

    Governments need scapegoats and immigrants are easy targets. Massive numbers of immigrants are brought into Europe to rebuild the continent after World War II. Many of these immigrants have never assimilated into European societies. Many live in near ghettos on the outskirts of major cities.

    In this country immigrants have always been able to assimilate into general society. We have always had a very positive view of immigration and have favored strong economic growth. Europe is different. They have a slow growth high entitlement model which has never favored strong immigration.

    If the Europeans think they can solve their economic problems by putting up checkpoints they have another guest coming. Their societies are aging just like ours is.

    Keeping the young people out and the old people in is going to cause problems in Europe for decades to come. In my humble opinion.

    A wonderful day to all!

  35. Mr. Sun,

    Does the author of the letter or do you assign a title to the comment?

    Thanks in advance for answering.

    Purgatory

  36. Michael Casler could learn something from this (along with the other reactionary conservatives):
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/20/opinio...
    "Throw away the arguments that immigrants are tax leeches. On the contrary. They pay more in taxes than they consume in services. They all pay sales taxes. Illegal immigrants who use fake Social Security numbers to get hired pay income and payroll taxes -- but don't collect Social Security and are ineligible for Medicaid. The amount of unclaimed Social Security tax has more than doubled since the 1980's, to roughly $189 billion. Because immigrants tend to be younger and healthier than native born workers, they use government services more sparingly. A comprehensive study of immigration and its economic effects -- "The New Americans: Economic, Demographic, and Fiscal Effects of Immigration," by James Smith and Barry Edmonston for the National Research Council in 1997 -- summed up its conclusions this way: Because immigrants on average have less education than the native-born, they earn less and pay lower taxes. But immigrants also consume far fewer services. As a result: the average immigrant pays nearly $1,800 more in taxes than he or she costs in benefits, even when you factor in the cost of public education for his or her children."

  37. I don't think there is any profiling, they are looking for people from Mexico that look like they are from Mexico, so probably bright white people from England will not be bothered, but then they can't sneak in to the US so easy. If I was in China I would look different from the rest of the people and if asked for a document that allows me to be there I would not think it was profiling and be happy to provide it. If I was in Mexico and the same thing happened no problem. The legal immigrants here should be outraged enough by the extra security and want to help get rid of the illegal ones, but I doubt that will happen..

  38. I love it when the nutcases spin the facts on law breakers. Enforcing the law does not promote racism, it is enforcing the law. Anyone else who isn't carrying a valid ID when asked by the police, it suspect and the police have the right to run our finger prints to verify our name and background check. Just because these people are brown skinned, does not constitute racism. If a white person were detained, they'd be asked for ID, that isn't racism but you nutcases think just, any color but white, liberals scream racism.

    Liberals keep the race card alive and well by their own actions, not the Americans. When liberals quit using the race card and stop hyphenating by nationality to keep their mindless trolls sucking of the freebies, America will become a better place.

  39. Tell you what Tim Wiggins,
    Stop being one and I will be happy to not point out you are being one.

  40. "Enforcing the law does not promote racism, it is enforcing the law."

    Isn't this just what Hitler said? And wasn't everything he did completely legal? Except maybe for invading other countries without justification -- although that must be legal too or we wouldn't have done it ourselves.

  41. Shaffer -- Shaffer -- Shaffer, reading the liberal posts, it simply reaffirms what most of America thinks of liberal agenda; vote for anyone but Obama, kudos!

  42. Tim, Show by weight of data that the nonsense you espouse is "...what most of America thinks of (sic) liberal agenda;..." Speak for your own ignorance but do not presume to speak for "...most..." Americans. Millions of citizens, many former military like me, disagree with your fascism. Also, you could learn to spell a simple name as it is my real one...Timmy.