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Saturday, May 26, 2012 | 2 a.m.
For months now, liberals from columnist Paul Krugman to the president and politicians all over Europe have been promoting the concepts that growth is good and austerity is bad.
Not a tough sell, as austerity means less public spending and eventually higher taxes. Growth is good because growth would put more money in people’s pockets with new jobs and, of course, would raise taxes fairly painlessly.
The issue is unfortunately not so clear cut. Austerity is a means to an end, but growth is an end. Naturally, we all want growth, but none of us want austerity. France voted in an even more socialist leader promising less austerity and more growth, and, of course, the battle in Greece is just the same: The people like growth and don’t care for austerity.
Liberals make it sound like the various governments are sitting on boxes of cash, and all that needs to be done is to have the political will to get it out and spend it. In France, the same as here, the politicians say, “No problem. Just tax the rich.” Perhaps, but I don’t think that has been particularly effective at any time, anywhere.
So the world over, politicians are saying, “Just give us a shot and we’ll have growth, not austerity.” Spending money that governments don’t have has never worked yet, but I suspect the world’s about to give it another try. Watch Greece for a preview of the result.
Getting the private sector to create jobs is the main part of this equation,but the incentives and regulatory consitions must be right. Central governments need to allow the private markets the freedom and right conditions for unleashing private capital, and growth will begin to happen.
Obama's Trillion dollar Stimulus proves you can not just squander money and spend your way out of a recession. Obama failed.
It is not just the stimulus
Obama took over with a debt of under $10 trillion and we are approaching $16 trillion in 4 years that is $1.5 trillion of unpaid stimulus each year for Obama.
What did we get average growth of just 1.9% over the last three years
Under employment of 20% over the last three years
We need the stop these failed Obama policies
We can not survive 4 more years of failed Obama policy.
Under Bill Clinton spending was under control we need to go back to those lower spending rates
Obama and EU leaders have pulled every Keynesian lever they can to jump start the USA and EU economic malaise. Hasn't worked. Gov'ts can't spend their way out of recessions. Couldn't in 1933 when economic markets were decoupled and simpler. Can't now when they are huge and interconnected. John Maynard Keynes and Keynesian economics: RIP.
Carmine A. DiFazio
The UK tried austerity and they are now back in recession.
The US economy on the other hand is growing at a steady reate.
"The UK tried austerity and they are now back in recession. The US economy on the other hand is growing at a steady reate."
That's very very funny. Thanks for the early morning laughs.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Spending money we didn't have certainly worked during WW2 and the Marshall plan afterward.The truth of the matter is that we have been trying austerity and it's not working. We've been ignoring Krugman and listening to the Simpson-Bowles crowd who are a bunch of rich silver-spoons and corporate democrats.Do the conservatives make intellectually dishonest arguments ?
We have used a great deal of fiscal stimulus to avoid another Great (or Greater) Depression. The result has shown us that we cannot borrow our way to growth. With the rest of the world leaning toward austerity, it's even less likely that we will be able to grow our way out of the current situation.
We have an opportunity to take our medicine now and get it over with. We should allow all the tax cuts to expire as scheduled at the end of this year. We should implement the recommendations of the Simpson-Bowles Commision as a start. Our investment in our future cannot be painless and must be shared. The longer we delay, the greater the pain when it eventually happens.
Simpson Bull is a bunch of manipulative garbage. If we were serious about cutting deficits why did we extend the Bush tax cuts last Christmas ?
I believe that the letter writer and the poster Jim Weber are correct. Deficit spending may work occasionally when a country's overall debt level is extremely low, and thereby the government may in fact be successful in smoothing out rough patches.
However, the obscene deficit spending now practiced by most western governments must end. We will have to suffer through a rather extended depression-like period before real growth is again possible (much like the bursting of the housing bubble).
Posters like Bob Jack are advocating a line of thinking that will dismantle virtually all the social safety nets lovingly crafted by previous caring governments over the past several decades, and turn America into a third world country. Your Republican party appears to honestly agree with Mr. Jack's philosophy (or, more likely, he has bought into their line of thinking).
Unfortunately, America's debt and deficit problems are now so outrageous that balancing the budget to satisfy the letter writer's wise counsel will also mean incorporating many of Mr. Jack's hard-hearted suggestions. I guess that means they're both right.
Donald Desaulniers (FromBellevilleCanada)
We remain a nation on the cusp of hardship for the masses. Allowing the tax cuts to expire is a prescription for more hardship and would deflate any hope for a robust recovery. At this juncture it is the government that must restrain itself. The source of any recovery must be the realm of private interests, primarily consumers and small business. These interests must be given the major share of booty with which to generate demand and propel recovery.Eventually any federal revenue enhancement should revolve around tax reform which falls ,to the greatest degree possible,on all Americans.
Do the math: we CANNOT keep spending at current levels, with or without the tax cuts. Government spending must focus on ESSENTIALS such as defense of the continental U.S., not foreign soil, homeland security, LAW ENFORCEMENT at the federal level, border security, removal of illegals and foreign nationals, and infrastructure WITHIN the nation. SS and Medicare MUST be restructured for solvency. Business is waiting on this--the liberal threat to business paying for all of Medicare is preventing hiring. Get it done and make it clear that increases in wage limit subject to SS / Medicare taxes is limited to the employee portion. There is no funding for Medicaid so stop expanding it. Limit Medicaid benefits to those unable (non-able-bodied) to provide for themselves. And limit Medicaid to NECESSARY health care, not endless "insurance" plans and elective care. Stop Medicaid eligibility to adults who do not qualify for disability nor retirement benefits--we cannot afford so much dead weight. Maybe local governments and non-profits, including churches, can do something for American indigents. Expel the 7 million illegals in NON-agricultural jobs, stealing jobs from our long-term unemployed. Expel the other illegals usurping our government services from K-12, library internet to call home, anchor baby Medicaid, food stamps, TANF, utility payments, child care expenses. ELIMINATE federal tax code preferences for more than 3 children--illegals are defrauding our tax system by claiming additional child benefits whether the kids are here or not. And if they need more than 3 kids, THEY can pay for them--so can the "diggers" and people who want larger families. GET something done so people can budget. Let us determine if we have any discretionary money to spend, to create demand, to create jobs.
Ridiculous things propagated by Repubicans:
1) Get canadians with good health care coming down here to dramatize our deficits
2) tax cuts create jobs
3) tax cuts decrease deficits
4) tax cuts cure cancer
5) keep going with things that don't work: trickle down economics.
6) Avoid thinks that will work : Keynesian economics
7) Deregulation produces jobs
8) deregulation lowers deficits
9) Globaloney
10) Health care for the wealthy hypochondriacs; the rest of us can get sick and die
11) The clergy and rich folk ought to run the country;It's dangerous for the rest of us to read and write.
12)It's deficits not unemployment we should be concerned with; since we don't want anyone cutting into our trust funds.
The growth rate of entitlement costs is driving our debt & deficits.The debate today is whether or not to reduce the **growth rate** of spending especially entitlement costs which have doubled from $984 billion in 1990 to $2.1 trillion today, not actual spending cuts. The debate is about growth rate, not spending cuts, a big difference. Sometimes, it's phrased as "bending the cost curve downward". The debate could really be about how much do we want to be taxed in 2022. Without entitlement reform, we will have to collect tax revenue of around 22% of GDP which will cost jobs and increase the unemployed. With entitlement reform, the tax revenue we need to collect will be 19%-20% of GDP which is a big difference. The debate can also be framed as to whether or not we want to have 4%-5% unemployment in the future or 8%-10% due to the higher tax rates required. Historically, from 1948 until 2012, the United States GDP Annual Growth Rate averaged 3.23% compared to Europe's .39%. Europe's entitlement programs and business legacy costs(healthcare fees and other benefit-related costs for its current employees and retired pensioners) hinders its economic growth.
Let's face it, neither side has the whole complete answer.
Paying people to just sit at home and not find jobs, bloated wasteful government, and 11 or so years of tax cuts to 'create' jobs hasn't worked. Both sides talk about cutting spending but neither wants to cut it in their states where their political future is at stake. The answer lies in cooperation and a balanced look at governing. Something our leaders refuse to do. Forgive me for appearing negative, but the system is broken and corrupt and our leaders have no incentive to change.
We ought the call the bush tax cuts and them inheritance taxes "entitlements" too; as well as the oil and gas subsidies.
We could have a war mongers tax , charge people who made money with defense contrators in the last ten years. We could fund the VA with that.
Darth,
Obama's only remedy is taxing top wage earners a higher tax rate which would bring in an extra $4 billion a year. Applying the $4 billion a year to this year's budget deficit would lower it from $1.3 trillion to $1.296 trillion. That's the solution from Obama and the democrats.
The republicans want to reform taxes and cut out the loopholes resulting in lower tax rates. These loopholes are subsidies to tax payers. We need to level the playing field by removing loopholes which will allow tax rates to lower because we're no longer subsidizing one tax payer at the expense of another. Consumers and businesses need tax certainty to spend and plan & invest long-term which grows our economy. We also need to address entitlement costs which are growing at an unsustainable rate. There is not enough revenue sources available in future years to pay for entitlement costs at its current trajectory rate. We could tax the top wage earners 100% and still would not have enough to cover these costs.
"We ought the call the bush tax cuts and them inheritance taxes "entitlements" too; as well as the oil and gas subsidies."
Michael- CBO predicts a Recession in 2013 unless Congress acts on fiscal issues
"The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said Tuesday that unless lawmakers act to prevent scheduled tax increases and spending cuts at the end of the year, a recession will likely result in early 2013.
Early next year income taxes are set to go up when the Bush-era tax rates expire. Automatic spending cuts totaling roughly $109 billion triggered by last August's debt-ceiling deal are set to hit. Meanwhile, payments to physicians under Medicare will be slashed.
CBO projects that these and other elements of the so-called "fiscal cliff" will cause the economy to contract as demand dries up.
It projected in a Tuesday report that the gross domestic product (GDP) will contract by 1.3 percent in the first half of 2013 before growing 2.3 percent later in the year. Annualized, GDP would grow just 0.5 percent in 2013.
"Given the pattern of past recessions as identified by the National Bureau of Economic Research, such a contraction in output in the first half of 2013 would probably be judged to be a recession," the report states.
A recession is technically defined as two economic quarters of negative economic growth.
This is the first time CBO has forecast a recession resulting from the fiscal cliff. In January it saw 1.1 percent GDP growth in 2013 if policies are not dealt with."
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/bu...
Continued....
Continued 2.....
Michael, the Bush tax cut plan originally passed by Republicans benefited more lower and middle income wage earners including single mothers and the elderly than the rich:
* 46 million married couples received an average tax cut of $1,716.
* 34 million families with children received from an average tax cut of $1,473.
* 6 million single women with children received an average tax cut of $541.
* 13 million elderly taxpayers received an average tax cut of $1,384.
* 23 million small business owners received tax cuts averaging $2,042.
* 3 million moderate-income families saw their income tax burden eliminated entirely.
Also, the Bush tax cuts brought in more tax revenue, not less.
So apparently, the CBO sees the need for us to continue these tax cuts.
The indicators back in early 2001 prior to the Bush tax cuts were that consumer debt was at an all time high at 17% of disposable income, the personal savings rate was near record lows between 2% and 3% and consumers were purchase less as indicated by GDP growth slowing to 1.09. Based on this Bush decided to cut taxes to put more money into consumers hands. The recession lasted just 8 months and GDP started to rise again the following years with a GDP growth rate of 1.8%, 2.5% the 3.59%. Tax receipts started to climb again as well to 17.3% and 18.2% as a percent of GDP two years after the recession. Bush, did the right thing by putting more money into the economy with lower tax rates, it shortened the recession and tax revenue started to climb back to at or above the historic average two years later.
Republicans are tax shirkers , deregulators and globaloneyists ; recovery is impossible under this regime.
Michael,
We rebounded from the 1981 severe recession with republican policies. Our economy produced an additional 18 million working Americans during Reagan's 8 term compared to 2 million under Obama's nearly 4 year term. Obama's small job growth rate does not even keep pace with new entrants coming into the workforce.
Bottom-line Michael, your liberal rhetoric doesn't match reality and the facts.
It makes me sad too when I hear that Mitt Romney may not be able to include car elevators in his new Malibu mansion if, God forbid, the 13.9% tax rate on his $21,700,000 incomes is raised.
I'm tearing up at the thought.
But in-home car elevators notwithstanding, America is deep in debt and a realistic approach to taxation is called for. The guy who mows the lawn at Mitt's Malibu mansion or the woman who cleans his toilets pay a higher portion of their meager income compared to the privileged multi-millionaire who owns the joint.
Maybe it's just me but that seems incredibly bass ackwards.
My liberal rhetoric hasn't been tried but we've been using Reagans old trickle down for thirty years and all we have is an unemployed middle class with poor health care and a fore closed house.
The Left never saw a tax it did not like. Every year tax revenue should be justified by the Government on a Zero Based basis. There should always be a budget that justifies every dime to be spent.Wealth belongs to the People, not the state.
Without the sweat of the People, there would be no wealth for the Government. No tax revenues to collect.This is a point that the Left does not get. It believes that wealth is a naturally occuring element in the universe which generates tax revenue for equal distribution to everyone.
RefNV:
I read and saw the CBO prediction. Recession never left, was always and still here. I called the ever so negligible uptick a "dead cat" bounce. Just like '33 with FDR. After all the tillions in stimulus, TARP, QE1 and QE2, and the Treasury Bond Twist, there had to be some minor upswing. A dead cat bounce. I feel sorry for Romney when he is the winner of the Nov 2012 presidential election. He faces an economic armageddon that was made worst by Obama's Keynesian economics.
Carmine A. DiFazio
Michael,
You are RIGHT on the MONEY.
Don't listen to the windbag...he's a paid shill.
I enjoy your commentary...
it ain't MADE UP JUNK, or facks & figgurs rearranged to make statistics support an extreme TeaNut agenda.
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damne...
The problem right now is unemployment- tax subsized oil tycoon.
"Trickle Down" economics is less preferred than "trickle out" economics. Under the latter all wealth generated remains with the creators of that wealth except what they decide to spend voluntarily. Under these principles, (other than for the common defense and the care of the elderly and disabled) all wealth would remain with those who create it at all levels of society. This keeps life simple for the Left.
The Right never saw a tax cut it did not like, even if it's paid for with borrowed money. They weep openly about the debt (plus the interest) being passed on to our children and grandchildren but never seem to associate that with any tax cut they're receiving or their unwillingness to contribute more to pay our own way now.
Here's an idea. To help payoff our crushing debt maybe Bush and Cheney could come out of retirement and lead a neocon delegation to Iraq in the hopes of convincing that nation to pay for the unnecessary war they lied us into. A couple trillion dollars would do wonders to help our struggling economy.
Admittedly it's a pie-in-the-sky, mushroom-cloud-on-the-horizon proposition but it would give those failures a chance to improve their disastrous legacies.
Hey Ref,
I can surely agree with you, just raising taxes isn't the answer. We need a balanced approach of taxes, spending cuts, fewer givaways, and a much sleeker streamlined government that spends less.
As a federal employee (retiring shortly) I see terrible waste and abuses. Massive spending cuts can surely be made, but there isn't a single agency that would willingly take a budget cut, and politicians won't propose cuts that will cost them votes.
The most critical issue I see is getting both sides to acknowledge that the other side has a point. They act like a long married couple where the most important thing to either side is proving they are right before they'll even consider a compromise. They need an outside entity with a clear head to provide counselling.
LastThroes,
Simply put, a pro-business President will get our economy going and creating jobs again. The anti-business Obama, unions and Occupiers can't create jobs, businesses do.
Actually oily most wealhty don't create wealth they inherit it look at Ensign, Frist, W, and all the rest.
The fact is that it is not a tax cut that I like as much as I do not like taxes at all unless they are critical to the common defense or the care of the elderly or disabled.
I don't traditionally respond to individual posts (unless one is directed towards me, in which I respectfully feel they deserve a response).....but Carmine.....your term 'Dead cat bounce' made me seriously laugh out loud. Kudos.
Many readers miss the point of the current call for austerity. Today, our tax rates are lower than in the last 50 years. Meanwhile, both our population and the number of elderly and poor have grown significantly over the last 50 years. The overall needs of society have increased as the world has increased in complexity. So as a society who cares about human needs we are at a tipping point. Do we continue to deny basic human needs such as health care and temporary assistance to those in need, or do we figure out a revenue and spending formula that allows us to remain something better than a third world country?
Many on the right seem to only look at one side of the formula, severely cutting spending which will deny basic human needs to many Americans, especially the middle class and below. The have no desire to even examine the revenue side of the equation!
I think every thinking American can agree we need a balanced approach. During the Clinton years the economy boomed, yet tax rates were far higher. Under Bush, when tax rates were dramatically lowered, the economy did well for a short time then totally exploded in the crash of 2008. Despite the lowest taxes on the rich in decades, job creation quickly turned negative. The rights clinging to a disproven notion that tax cuts for the rich creates job has been proven to be false. Let's look at science, data, and evidence and stop politicians from simply pandering to their largest contributors.
To say that the wealthy do not create wealth is to ignore the reality that only a minority of the wealthy inherit their wealth. Most create their own. Look at Gates, jobs and Buffett as examples. Do you actually think that there are no more wealth creators?
Darth,
I think democrats need to define who they are. Their far left base is the Occupy group which consists of radical teachers/students, socialists, anarchists and unionized workers. Liberals are frustrated because there is not enough revenue from any source to pay for entitlements and they refuse to reform entitlements so they have no plan but to tax top wage earners who earn 17% of total US income but pay 38% of all federal taxes. That is it. That is their plan and it's a plan that keeps piling up debt and creating yet more uncertainty with businesses and those consumers with means to spend who usually lead us out of recessions. Democrats have lost moderate and conservative members of congress these last few years, from 56 in 2010 and only 10 are sure-things to return next congress. Liberals have tilted the party far-left socialist which makes compromising with a pro-business/free market party next to impossible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-...
The fed has stated a minimum of 11 years to get back to a pre-recession unemployment rate of 5%.
Recessions have occurred every few years since the country was founded...about 47. Very little can be done about it.
Austerity in Europe has put 12 countries into recession. Germany is stuck in the mud. The US has slowed but growth is taking place. Construction and housing are on the mend. Car sales are robust.
Keep your fingers crossed!
Our fiscal issues are due to medical cost inflation . Period!! Even defense is looking at $1 trillion in med costs in the next 10 years. Up from $16 billion a year a decade ago. Money that was spent on weapons systems is currently being diverted to medical.
Greece has a severe problem with austerity. The EU forgave half their debt for the assurance the country would agree to handle the rest. Greece reneged big time.In one subdivision in greece where we visited recently, 300 swimming pools sit in backyards. The tax roles identify 2 tax-paying Greeks owning up to pools. We have a problem Houston, not unlike theirs.
Much of our problem rests in the legislature's inability to find common ground, to recognize needs for concession, and to compromise party plans for the good of the country. These are more severe than anything else we face - blockheads boasting balderdash while our nation suffers from issues that WILL include austerity, belt-tightening and mostly common sense, as rare a bird in DC as in Carson C.
I think belleville has a good perspective from the northern neighbor, identifying the short-sighted notion of whacking entitlements that form a safety net, generations in the making. But that is not to say we need to preserve the whole whale. There's plenty of blubber all over.
Our govt revenue is 14% of GDP; traditionally that figure is 19%. Overhauling tax codes to bring this stream back up to workable levels could impact the longevity of any perceived 'austerity' measures in a few years.
But if we choose to allow special partisan interests to kick the can down the road, by 2022 we'll be the Greece with no Aegean, stealing what we can from our neighbors and lying all the way to the bank with our fluffy worthless paper and mounting debt to shame Mt. Olympus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_create...
employment growth in the United States was strong when the country was young and we had very little international economic competition. The current environment is going to slow things down for many years to come.
Greece is a tiny country with a few million people and economic output $200 billion less than Los Angeles County. Forget Greece. They peaked as an economic superpower centuries ago. Greece should have never been brought into the euro zone.
Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Spain need to go their separate ways. All these countries look to Germany for economic assistance. Germany needs to kick them to the curb.
Reshoring profits from internationals who do much business here - in effect treating 'corporations like people'- would add a bundle to our revenue, rather than the current scheme of leaving profits off-shore while giving them the legal rights to purchase ballot boxes, thanks to Citizens United.
Defense contracts could be trimmed as the wars of choice wind down to provide what was considered a peace dividend a few years back.
Significant loss of spending power from health care could be modified to enhance both value received and money spent with considered improvements of ACA.
But nothing will happen if our elected representatives staunchly refuse to concede 'Postures a plenty' while humming 'This land is my land, it is NOT your land' and trampling on the spirit of the constitution the way Woodie Guthrie walked 'that ribbon of highway.'
If someone thinks that austerity is the way to solve economic problems that we are facing they are totally dilusional. The only way out of this is to spend ,budget and allocate dollars toward debt reduction. When people are in trouble financially they absolutely have to pay their debts. Yet there is a right and wrong way to go about it.
Pay yourself just like you pay your bills.
This hole is very deep yet if you look at history we were in worse shape prior to ww2
The fact remains we spent our way. Out of the recession ,instituted a Marshall plan ,more spending and yes educated our vets and paid off the debt,
Don't buy into the scare tactics. All we need is a long term plan and to tell the naysayers to go kiss off
We have 17% fewer tax filers compared to 2008. The top 1% of wage earners earn 34% less now compared to 2008. Our tax revenue as a percent of GDP is estimated to be 14.5% this year compared to our historical 18%. Simply put, we need a growing economy that creates jobs in order to close the tax revenue gap between 14.5% and 18%. We also need to address entitlement costs which are unsustainable at the current cost trajectory. A stable federal tax & spend policy will remove business and consumer uncertainty allowing businesses to plan & invest long-term and gives tax certainty to those consumers with means who typically get our economy going first out of a recession.
There is an article in the paper today that reflects typical CEO pay of $9.6 million. Some earning over $100 million. These fools have a problem paying union wages but have no issue whatsoever taking billions for themselves. Many of these guys run marginal companies and take compensation that is 100 times what is made by CEOs in the rest of the world running similar businesses. It would help if some of this money made its way to the workers.
Marvin... Regarding your comment that people have to pay their bills. Nonsense! People default, seek relief in bankruptcy court, steel and engage in other illegal activities. Nonpayments of medical bills amount to hundreds of billions of dollars. Walmart loses $4 billion a year to theft and corruption.
Debt bubbles have occurred throughout history among nations. No nation has ever paid back massive debts.
Read about the Latin American debt crisis, the Asian contagion, Russian debt crisis, and the Germans defaulting on their Treaty of Versailles obligations. People don't pay massive debts and neither do countries.
Look we were out of work and in debt in 1948(more so even); and we had enough to rebuild Europe and Japan. Its time to reject conservatives and live in hope instead of fear.
The upper 1% may be making a little less than they made a few years ago but the upper upper 1% is swimming in it. I have followed US and international real estate for 40 years. It's getting to the point where you can sell a $50 million property faster than a $200,000 property. There have been multiple sales in California in the $50 million plus range. Sales in New York in the hundred million dollar range. The Safra estate in the South of France sold for $750 million several years ago.
The government needs to siphon off some of this ridiculous wealth. America and France are getting too expensive for the Americans and French. The cost of housing, medical care and education have skyrocketed to the point of disbelief. According to the medical industry households need incomes of at least $200,000 a year for wealth creation to even begin.
Gerry,
Equilar is a California-based company that provides information about total executive compensation packages of the top officers at publicly traded companies only. The actual average CEO pay for all CEO's is less than $1 million dollars per year. Did you want me to pull the data for wages/salaries and other compensation for these companies and give you a percentage of CEO pay to total payroll or do you want to offer that information? The larger the company, the more a CEO makes especially those corporations with multiple divisions. Gerry, you make it sound as though these CEO's aren't paying everyone else squat and that's simply not true.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/top-c...
My error. I meant public companies. If you look at some of the largest employers in the United States they do pay their workers squat. The average Walmart worker makes $11 an hour. Sounds good except for the fact you can't even buy a decent family health insurance plan for $11 an hour anymore much less a home or fund the child's education. How many in this country make less than $20,000 a year? Being an airline pilot was a very prestigious profession when I was a kid in the 60s. Today starting pay at Continental is $30,000 a year and they are hiring pilots with 500 hours of flight time. This would have been unheard of years ago.
Ultimately what you want in a productive society is self-reliance. The ability for an individual to work, start a family, buy a home, save for retirement and medical expenses, put kids through school. Many people can no longer even accomplish one of these things.
Gerry- The average pilot salary is $104,000. Pilots of smaller commuter planes make on average $65,000.
The pathetic part is that Hoover said as much and Obama is more or less echoing it.
Why are all the people who know how to pull us out of this recession posting comments on the Sun's opinion page instead of running our country? Seems like a waste of brainpower.
http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009/06/...
I said starting pay. Pilots making $100K have years of experience.
Richard...They don't have the guts to run for office. It' always easier to criticize what others do than to try it yourself.
I was a medical trustee for many years (elected). Some of these issues are complex beyond belief. We worked on medical cost containment for decades and couldn't get to first base taking on medical and insurance lobbies.
Politics is simple when sitting behind the computer. Not so simple when people threaten to kill ya.
How many presidents have been attacked for nothing more than trying to do a very tough job.
The only people I see getting killed are the lower middle class and poor kids in our service in central asia
The Iraq war had the underlying objective: spending as fast as possible, throwing money away and borrowing to create massive debt. Iraq is now the most costly war ever fought in 2012 dollars, and to fight a third world nation!
Bush manufactured the reasons for the Iraq War and Bush pals are using the National Debt created by that war to demolish social protection nets. Our money was THROWN away for nothing while war debts are still piling up.
Republicans have created 80% of the existing National Debt over the past 30 years. Every Republican President since Reagan has experienced a large recession near the end of their Presidency, recessions created by greed: no crop failure, natural or international causes were involved.
The debt we have today is not caused by Social Security or Medicare - it is caused by banking, real estate or insurance failures, themselves caused by deregulation and the ensuing greed.
Cutting $1 trillion in National spending will reduce the GDP by 5% and that WILL cause a recession. Romney's plan is to cut spending, cut more taxes for the top income brackets and INCREASE the size of the military.
The objective of the Bush tax cuts was to create prosperity - instead they created the biggest recession and expansion of the National Debt in 70 years. Now, the GOP wants to use the same philosophy that created the problem. Bankruptcy will soon become a way of life.
Tax cuts for the wealthy is not an austerity plan - that is obvious.
The wage earner cannot take advantage of tax shelters so they pay 25% income tax, while wealthy who can afford tax write-offs pay 15% tax on 'investment income'. Lobbyists for the wealthy end up writing the tax shelter laws, hand them to the representatives for the vote and get paid well. Wage earners have no paid lobbyists so they are discriminated against by the tax laws.
Austerity that is being called for the wage earner and underprivileged is nothing more than class warfare - that is clear and obvious.
Austerity is just another word for putting more concentrated power in the hands of the 1%-ers while dissolving the meager resources of the masses.
Politicians are the principle pulpiteers playing to the propensities of opinions popular with their people, those proud pipers playing plutocratic hymns to pave the way back to slavery, the beggaring of the proletariat, and the catastrophe of conscience that consists of our persistent revolving doors of congress and lobbyists, the perversion of power.
We live in the land of the free and the home of the bought.
The mantra of our leaders is monopoly and myopia.
And the tragedy is that they nab the spirit and throw the soul away.
The autonomy and sense of self-determination have been eroded, the notions of individual worth are discarded, and the American Dream is being shocked and awed, blocked and flawed, shackled and heckled and robbed by a plutocracy pursuing the permanent demise of people as we knew them.
Rich is Not
What you GOT
Or where you live.
Rich is what's inside you,
Who's beside you and
How you learn to give.
Now that's a Joem, a chunk of Joetry to jell our jumbled disjointed judgements with a jovial display of joyous juxtaposition.
from Coyote Soul, the joetry of grief
Jon,
The political attack is waged and funded by unions against business, tax payers, consumers and freedom-loving Americans. The War on Terror will cost $159 billion this year. Entitlements will cost $2.1 TRILLION! In 1990, entitlements cost $984 billion so the cost of entitlements have doubled since 1990.
Unions are a special interest group benefiting only union leaders and union members at the expense of tax payers and consumers. Unions openly back candidates who support their desire for inflated wages and pension plans at the expense of tax payers and consumers causing bankrupt companies and financially strapped cities/local governments. Unions along with socialist democrats are on offense attacking business, entrepreneurs and tax payers trying to divert attention away from their misdeeds. Businesses supply jobs and unions bankrupt cities, companies like GM & American Airlines and along with the democrats have nearly bankrupted our country. Obama still hasn't presented one plan to reduce our deficit and bend the cost of entitlements downward. Democrats simply aren't being honest with the American people which they deserve.
Voters in Wisconsin and all across America have a clear choice this year at the voting booth. Face our problems head-on or continue to look the other way kicking the can down the road in the process.
be afraid.....................booooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
Joe Lamy @4:36
Good post, thanks.
I guess austerity is fine...as long as you think it's not going to affect you.
I wonder what the one in five children in this country that don't know when or where they will get their next meal think.(ConAgra)
Allowing American people to starve, sicken and die so that those who are so much better off can not only keep what they have, but attain more is not who we are as a people.
Thinking that allowing people, who even with insurance, have fallen victim to catastrophic medical bills should lose their homes, automobiles, possessions and have their minor children taken by CPS is not who we are or even thinking we should be.
Shame on anyone who thinks that way.
Susan,
I agree. Those billions going to unions and union leaders can be better spent feeding hungry children.
Demand-side economics does work, if done correctly. During times of slow growth, spending to increase demand is a good thing, as long as during the good times, that spending is paid for. The problem we have is that we spend too much and tax too little during the good times. We should have (and could have) paid down the national debt significantly from 1995-2005. Instead, we got a ton more spending, and lower taxes. Increasing debt during good times is the problem (that is what Greece did: it borrowed a ton of money when times were good, instead of paying down its debt. The result now is a government with crippling debt and no way to borrow to stimulate growth, which is why Eurobonds may be necessary).
As a liberal, I feel the government does need to make investments now, while the economy is slow, especially in infrastructure and education. I'm OK with our debt rising-- as long as we decide to pay for it when times are good. That means we all pay more taxes (especially the wealthy) and accept less government spending (including entitlements). The problem with Obama's stimulus was twofold: it tried to do too much and it spent too little. We need a massive road building program, money to expand rail, airports, and ports, and money for education, Primary, secondary, and post-secondary.
RefNV......
The last businessman president was George W. Bush.
How well did that work out for us?
Ed.....
We need growth to save our country.
Americans also need better paying jobs to be able
to buy products and increase demand.
Non-union companies, like Walmart, are a big part
of the problem.
Minimum wage and NO benefits.
That's what destroyed our middle class.
And let's not forget the slightly higher taxes
under President Clinton.
We had the most growth of all time and the best
economy in our lifetime.
If we want our middle class and economy to keep
growing, DON'T VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS!
Teamster,
Bush maintained 62%-63% of our American population employed throughout his Presidency and added 8 million workers. Obama? 58.5% with 12 to 14 million jobless Americans for three straight years now. We need to add 180,000 jobs each month just to keep pace with new Americans entering the workforce and Obama, on average, has added 45,000, well below what we need. Lastly, during Bush's term in office, the national debt climbed $4.8 trillion. $1.8 trillion was due to the rise entitlement costs and $1.6 trillion was the reduced tax revenue in the two years following the recession and the rest is due to military spending. Obama? Obama has surpassed Bush's debt mark by adding $5 trillion in debt in four years what Bush did in eight. He's already the President who's added more debt than any other President EVER! I think Americans wouldn't mind cutting deficits in half and having 12 to 14 million more Americans working like Bush accomplished. And Bush did the right thing with the tax cuts. Consumer debt was at an all time high at 17% of disposable income, the personal savings rate was near record lows between 2% and 3% and consumers were purchase less as indicated by GDP growth slowing to 1.09. He put more money into American's hands which shortened the recession and got our economy going again. Teamster, you bad mouth good results and you support a President who's gotten worse result than the previous President. Unbelievable!
Ed,
No box of cash out there, put there is a printing press! We can print money and as our man Ben said I will throw out of a helicopter. I think we are in serious trouble with this mind set. There are people who work, save, invest, and there are those waiting for a free meal. I want nothing from the government.
The rich elite stole our jobs and houses but thats not enough they want our future- Medicare and Social Security
"Let them eat cake"...
Mitt Romney & the TeaPublicans.
Wall Street destroyed over $10 trillion in retirement income using credit default swaps: mortgage insurance policies that had no cash to back them up.
The most dangerous entitlements today are paid to those who manipulate the financial system, walk away with the profits to buy up the foreclosed homes.
Entitlements are also dividend payments made year after year to those who do not work for the money they get. Example: "Dividend reinvestment". This (not what it means) is used by Capital groups such as Bain to borrow millions and then pay most of that cash to the investors. That company often goes bankrupt but the investors keep the cash paid to them.
Example of "Dividend Reinvestment": K-B Toys was was purchased and taken private in 2000 by the leveraged buyout firm of Bain Capital for $305 million. Only $18 million of the purchase money was cash from Bain, the rest was borrowed against the assets of the company.
Sixteen months after the buyout in early 2002, Bain Capital paid itself $85 million in dividends. Two years later, due to its enormous debt, KB Toys filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and closed 365 stores on January 14, 2004. Thousands of jobs were lost to make riches for a few.
In the world of capital, fortunes aren't made by putting people to work or creating jobs - fortunes are made through manipulation, arbitrage, and thievery cast as 'weeding out the weak'. Put 10 million people on the street with another real estate failure and Occupy will be the future for sure.
TEA......
You call bush handing the WORST ECONOMY SINCE THE
DEPRESSION, to President Obama good results?
Do you really think Americans are that stupid to
believe that insanity?
YES, that's crazy talk.
Bush was the WORST president in our lifetime.
And there's nothing that you can say that will
ever change that fact.
Austerity:
Aus*ter"i*ty (?), n.; pl. Austplwies (). [F. austerite, L. austerias, fr. austerus. See Austere.]
1. Sourness and harshness to the taste.
2. Severity of manners or life; extreme rigor or strictness; harsh discipline.
The austerity of John the Baptist.
3. Plainness; freedom from adornment; severe simplicity.
Or:
AUSTER''ITY, n. [L. austeritas.] Severity of manners or life; rigor; strictness; harsh discipline. It is particularly applied to the mortifications of a monastic life, which are called austerities.
You right wingers and teabaggers get off on the weirdest stuff.
The left wants you at the same table as everyone else.
Do you people really know what you are asking for?
I think you do.
You reap what you sow.
From Luke Chapter 19:11-27
Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. Therefore He said: "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, 'Do business till I come.' But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We will not have this man to reign over us.'
"And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. Then came the first, saying, 'Master, your mina has earned ten minas.' And he said to him, 'Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.' And the second came, saying, 'Master, your mina has earned five minas.' Likewise he said to him, 'You also be over five cities.'
"Then another came, saying, 'Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.' And he said to him, 'Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?'
"And he said to those who stood by, 'Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.' (But they said to him, 'Master, he has ten minas.') 'For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.'"
Your selfishness and cries for Austerity are pure self loathing and greed disguised as economic philosophy.
RefNv wrote this:
"Gerry- The average pilot salary is $104,000. Pilots of smaller commuter planes make on average $65,000."
What is the mean, mode, and distribution of those salaries? After all, the average pay for me and Warren Buffet is millions of dollars a year so I must be doing REALLY well.