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Wednesday, March 13, 2013 | 2 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
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The Legislature should vote no on Senate Bill 123, which would hide the costs of green power from the public. We have the right to know what we are paying for green power. With the requirement that 25 percent come from renewable energy sources by 2020, this will be a significant additional cost to the consumer.
Never ever hid the truth
We need to know the cost of what the lawmaker are doing
In reply to Henry Schmid; it is safe to say that there is universal agreement on your letter to the editor. Personally, thank you for bringing this to my attention.
WILL GREEN POWER ULTIMATELY SAVE US?
I've always loved being old school when it comes to America's energy. Yes, I've said, there is a place for green energy, but it takes a back seat to oil explorations and production. I've always supported big oil and clean coal. No doubt about it. I love my big gas guzzling trucks, old world oil burners and such. And apparently, besides all the other inherent human health and environmental dangers, I like collapsing the ground underneath my feet.
What fills empty space underground that is fashioned by the drawing out of billions of gallons of oil? Does coal mining cause great changes in the earths joined landmass? Could all this be the primary cause of greatly expanding earthquakes and sinkholes? How scary. Scientific evidence suggests this is true.
No problem. I'll gladly go green power!!!
All or nothing at all. Green and renewable power sources don't trump conventional energy sources. Both have to coexist in the future. One no better than the other except to those who want and use them. Be honest and provide the true costs so customers can make up their minds intelligently and pick and choose correctly.
CarmineD
Henry starts out saying the public doesn't know the cost of green power because the cost may be hidden in Senate Bill 123 and then ends with it will be a significant additional cost to the customer. I have seen claims from solar advocates that you can install enough panels on your Nevada home now that will pay for themselves in seven years (2020) and then you won't even have a power bill.
And as I've repeatedly pointed out, the time to explore alternative energy sources, including nuclear, is well BEFORE we actually need them. I'd normally say we should start NOW, but actually we should have started years ago. And yes, it'll cost money, some of which will be to no avail. That is the cost of exploring ANY new area of interest. Ending a project with no usable result appears to be a waste - EXCEPT that negative data remains data! It indicates an option we need pursue no further.
"I have seen claims from solar advocates that you can install enough panels on your Nevada home now that will pay for themselves in seven years (2020) and then you won't even have a power bill." Warrior
During Sandy, many of the NJ homes with solar were hit hard. But the public figured these homes would be first online with sun power. Wrong. Apparently the panels are hard wired into the electrical grid, as a default fail safe, so when the grid is out so are the panels. Consumers don't know about this because it's never mentioned by the solar fans. BTW, New Jersey and California, I believe, have the highest number of homes with solar panel users in the country. IN PART BECAUSE of the tax credits awarded to the buyers and users in these States to convert to renewable energy. Didn't help for Sandy survivors in NJ.
CarmineD
CarmineD, you're referring to an off grid solar stand alone systems in New Jersey, so I will refer to solar stand alone system on the Mars Curiosity Rover, hurricane Sandy never made it blink. In Nevada the idea is to produce enough power as to offset your bill, not as a stand alone system.
When I started driving in the early 1970s I was paying a little over $.30 a gallon for gasoline. Today it's nearly 15 times higher than that. In the near future when people have to start paying hundreds of dollars to fill their cars up with gas they're going to have green energy hanging off their fannies.
Before the financial collapse crude was close to $150 a barrel and gas was at six dollars a gallon in some parts of the country. Had the financial crisis not happened we would probably be looking at eight dollars a gallon today. New technology is always costly and then economies of scale drive down prices over time. Solving our energy dependence should be a national priority. Instead we've been playing games for 30 years. The Chinese spend 10 times what we spend on developing alternative energy. You think they know something we don't?
Chapline,
You stated "Could all this be the primary cause of greatly expanding earthquakes and sinkholes?" The answer is no.
More to my point of writing, why state something as fact that you 'feel' is correct? Why?
The late great statesman Daniel Patrick Moynihan said " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."
Please heed his sage advice.
Purgatory
Feel good energy creates jobs.
Good luck with that one.
As a rule, we must learn to craw before we can walk & walk before we can run...
With that being said, solar energy (actually all green energy/renewable energy) is now learning to craw.
I find it funny when some one talks about "clean coal." I grew up in coal mining country & I can tell you with out hesitation, there's NO SUCH THING!
Right-wingers are joined at the hip with oil, coal & natural gas. That's fine but guess what? Sooner or later we will be forced to develop more and more renewable energy if we want our economy to continue to grow & complete in a ever changing global economy....
Part of the plan to be competitive globally calls for us building a new grid system......the road block to getting that done is the same road black that continues to keep this country from moving forward...........the Republican Party!!
Personally, I think the real future lies with hydrogen fuel cells. Use solar to power the sea-water cracking plants to get hydrogen from water, and get nothing but pure water back as the only combustion emission.
That is an added bonus considering fresh water will become a limiting resource in the near future.
"With that being said, solar energy (actually all green energy/renewable energy) is now learning to craw."
Solar and wind have been around since the 1950's and probably before that.
So how long does it need to crawl some more?
It is one expensive baby too.
Here is a 411 on clean coal....they recently made a major breakthrough by generating energy from coal without burning it which reduces the pollution factor to near zero.
http://www.osu.edu/features/2013/ohio-st...
Private Pebble.....
Yes, solar & wind energy has been around for a good while but only recently has the necessary emphasis been placed on both....
Contrary to what you and other right-wingers believe, both have great untapped potential. Sooner or later, we will be forced to develop both on a massive scale....
How much oil do we have left? In the 1950's a gallon of gas went for 25 cents a gallon. Its now some where in the $4.00 range.
As the price of gas increases, the importance of developing & using both solar & wind will increase.
Once this is done, the cost will decrease as technological improvements come along...
The Ohio State "clean coal" research is a wonderful thing but its a baby just learning to crawl. Not sure how long it will take until it cam walk & then run....
I wonder what the current cost of producing "clean coal" is compared to solar & wind? Too early to tell???
Yes boftx, clean fresh water will probably be very hard to find in the future.
Water covers approximately 70% of the earth's surface but only 2% of that water can currently be used as fresh water....
A few cities along the California coast have built desalination plants for their drinking water and a couple of the cities are producing more than they need so they're selling the surplus to other neighboring communities....
Its only a matter of time until wind & solar is used to power ALL those desalination plants.....
That's called working smart......not something that is generally associated with conservatives in this country
They attempt to convince us that they're smart and efficient business people but if you look at the record of the last three Republican presidents that belief is not validated...
El_Lobo,
This is not a political issue, at least, not for me other than it will take political will and power to address it.
Logic simply exists. (And please, let's avoid Russel's Paradox and go for the intent here.)
Unfortunately, it is not possible to isolate taking the needed steps to convert from fossil fuels to newer forms of energy from the economic impact of doing so. Even small increases in the cost of energy, say 10%, can have dramatic and widespread impact on the quality of life for the majority of people.
I think that we must look at what the "natural" energy chain is, starting with nuclear, extending into solar, and at the bottom (so to speak) geo-thermal. Both solar and geo-thermal are ultimately the result of nuclear energy.
We currently are working from the very bottom of the secondary energy chain when we use fossil fuels. Wind and tidal forces are only slightly higher on the secondary chain. Bio, such as algae fuels, are probably at the top of the secondary chain. (Using corn, a primary food source, for fuel is just plain idiotic.)
To bring this rambling back to the start, we can not ignore the economics involved. But since economics has a substantial component involving human emotions such as greed and fear it is difficult to apply science (logic) to it in other than broad, general terms that of necessity dictate that some segments of the population will be harmed in the transition.
Barring a truly global civilization, the best we can hope for is that "we" will do better than "they" in the process.
boftx said:
"This is not a political issue, at least, not for me other than it will take political will and power to address it."
Sorry but I don't agree. Right now, its all political. Look at where the conservatives line up on this issue & then look at where the liberals line up.....
That alone validates what I'm saying. I don't understand how you won't/can't see that...
"In the 1950's a gallon of gas went for 25 cents a gallon. Its now some where in the $4.00 range."
Gas is still cheaper than what people pay for a bottle of water at a gas station.
In 1950 the average cost of gas was 30 cents per gallon. But only 1.5% of that was tax. In Nevada the total gas tax is .51 cents per gallon. Avg price is around $3.72. So the cost of the gas is around $3.21. Adjust that for inflation to put that into 1950 dollars would be $.34 cents per gallon. An increase of 4 cents.
Soon because of fraking, the USA will be the largest producer of petroleum products in the world.
"solar & wind energy has been around for a good while but only recently has the necessary emphasis been placed on both"
Bong!!!!!! Wrong again......the government has been pouring billions into solar development for over 30 years.
"Jimmy Carter's Public Utility Regulatory Policies Act of 1978, known as PURPA, led to tens of billions of dollars of alternative energy projects, including some early solar"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/201...
El_Lobo,
There are some who try to make it political, that doesn't mean it is, or should be. The sooner that people who are concerned about this throw off the blinders of political ideology and look at it as a pure engineering/survival project the better off we will be.
Mother Gaea isn't a Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Whig or anything else. She is simply an angry old b***h that *will* win in the end.
In reply to "Purgatory"; Theodore Roosevelt once said, "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
Best wishes possible to you Purgatory at your house of hollowness. BChap.
I think El Lobo and his Liberal friends should start riding bikes since he hates the use of oil. Doubt he will though. Lobos all talk no walk.
Oh clean energy...mmmmmm....Solyndra?
Wind power has been around since Jesus. On those days when it produces 0.1% of your energy like in England during last summer olymipics best to have plenty of NG plants on standby. Not very efficient.
Wind power advocates tend to over-promise and under produce both on energy produced and on windmill service life. So costs will be higher then original estimates. In keeping with most of what government is involved in.
http://theenergycollective.com/willem-po...
Whatever happened to the eco-whacko wet dream of 'peak oil' anyway?
Climategate 3.0 is out. Hopefully he'll reveal his identity so he can receive a Nobel Prize. Of course, non-Fox/kneepad media won't notice.
"I think El Lobo and his Liberal friends should start riding bikes since he hates the use of oil. Doubt he will though. Lobos all talk no walk.
Oh clean energy...mmmmmm....Solyndra?" Chuck333
The huge lie that the electric car buyers and users buy into is that they are righteous because they use electric cars. What they don't say [or perhaps know] is that to keep that car charged during its useful life uses up more electricty and carbon emissions than a comparable a gas powered vehicle.
CarmineD
Poor, poor chuckie....he doesn't get it!
He said:
"I think El Lobo and his Liberal friends should start riding bikes since he hates the use of oil. Doubt he will though. Lobos all talk no walk."
Ha! Ha! Ha!
First of all I don't hate the use of oil.
Secondly, sooner or later we're going to run out of oil or what oil that we have will be so expensive that the average American won't be able to afford it...
I'm talking about slowly decreasing our dependence on fossil fuels. That's being pro-active.
I realize that people such as chuckie have no idea what being pro-active is all about.
chuckie will tell you that "real men" use oil!
Ha! Ha! Ha!
"Secondly, sooner or later we're going to run out of oil or what oil that we have will be so expensive that the average American won't be able to afford it..." El Lobo
Wrong. By 2030 the USA will be the largest exporter of oil in the world and China will likely be ou
ir biggest customer. Currently we are the Saudi Arabia of natural gas and will remain so.
If EPA didn't put so many regs on refineries here in the USA, gas would be $1.90 a gallon now rather than $3.70 and climbing.
All or nothing at all. All energy sources should coexist together. Let consumers and customers decide what they prefer to buy and use not the government forcing one over the other on them.
CarmineD
Government has now mandated that all weather events are now attributed to Climate Change Warming. And no, I won't worry about it.