Facebook
Fark
Digg
Reddit
Stumble
Friday, March 15, 2013 | 2 a.m.
Another view?
View more of the Las Vegas Sun's opinion section:
• Editorials - the Sun's viewpoint.
• Columnists - local and syndicated writers.
• Letters to the editor - readers' views.
Have your own opinion? Write a letter to the editor.
Justice Antonin Scalia is not a common advocate for federal oversight. However, he wrote, “the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited” as to allow firearm possession by felons or the mentally ill.
Numerous polls have shown overwhelming support for common-sense gun violence prevention measures that would make our families safer and protect the rights of law-abiding gun owners.
As a mother, wife and citizen, I urge our nation’s leaders to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
I hope Sens. Harry Reid and Dean Heller will recognize the importance of requiring a mandatory criminal background check for every gun purchase and vote to pass meaningful gun reform.
Sara says "I urge our nation's leaders to keep guns out of the hands of criminals."
Criminal will never be subject to these background check laws they get their guns on the street
Banning guns will not prevent criminals from getting them
"Criminal will never be subject to these background check laws they get their guns on the street"
Right, and to keep weapons out of their hands you stop straw purchasers and runnners from buying in bulk and selling them. How? You register all weapons sold to who bought them.
Precedent was set with the National Firearms Act of 1934 which did not destroy the 2nd Amendment as some believe.
Good letter Sara, thank you.
Justice Scalia is right on guns and the second amendment. The US and States have done a poor job with gun laws and gun culture. And we the people are paying a deadly price for it.
Carmine D
I agree with Carmine.
I also agree with CarmineD, rare as it is.
"As a mother, wife and citizen, I urge our nation's leaders to keep guns out of the hands of criminals."
Lemma -- the problem is these kinds of controls also keep guns out of the hands of otherwise law-abiding people.
"Precedent was set with the National Firearms Act of 1934 which did not destroy the 2nd Amendment as some believe."
VernosB -- maybe not "destroy" but it certainly took a chunk out of it.
"Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal." -- post-Civil War slogan found @ http://www.colt.com/ColtLawEnforcement/H...
If guns were banned, only criminals would have guns...what a great way to identify criminals!
Seriously though, I think we should just do two simple things that should not be controversial to anyone but the nutty... 1.require background checks for ALL gun purchases and transfers, AND, 2. limit magazine size to something reasonable (7-10 rounds or so). Banning assault rifles probably won't do hardly anything to curb gun violence since most killings are by handguns.
notacon, and why do you advocate " limit magazine size to something reasonable (7-10 rounds or so)"?
All evidence from jurisdictions that have tried this in the past show that it does NOT result in a reduction in gun crime or gun deaths....so what result do you expect if it's enacted this time? What's the logic behind enacting a law that's been proven repeatedly to be utterly ineffective.
The logic is that a gun rampage nut will need to reload more, giving time for action. This did happen in the Giffords shooting. Lets face it, it's a pretty modest proposal. I agree that it won't matter much since most deaths are from handguns.
So notacon, show me an example of a jurisdiction that has limited magazine capacity and seen a reduction in gun deaths as a result.
Because the real world reality is that several countries have tried it....and it's never actually worked.
What is the fetish with big magazines anyhow? I identified a situation where a criminal was stopped when reloading and I think military or police professional would tell you that's the best time to act to take down a perp, so why the problem with it?
See, this is the kind of irrationality that has lead to the present stupidity with respect to guns. Guns and gun paraphenalia are not holy objects. Let's be sensible.
notacon " I identified a situation where a criminal was stopped when reloading and I think military or police professional would tell you that's the best time to act to take down a perp, so why the problem with it?"
Because you took that simple fact and made two irrational and unjustified assumptions from it.
First you ASSUMED that had the shooter been using a larger capacity magazine that more people would have been shot or killed. Real world data shows that jurisdictions that have tried these limits have NOT seen any beneficial result.
Second you ASSUMED that a law limiting magazine capacity would somehow prevent a criminal from obtaining a larger capacity magazine, despite all evidence from the real world showing that such bans do NOT reduce the supply available to criminals.
So as you said "Let's be sensible". Let's not implement "feel good" measures that have been proven unsuccessful in the real world.
Stop using the crybaby sentiment that "criminals will be able to get them". Its a matter of statistics. If there are less large magazines out there, there will be less of a chance that a criminal will get them. Period. Sure, a criminal can them. He can also get a Vulcan gun, RPG or whatever and really cause a lot of carnage. Does this mean that we should throw up our hands and let the general public have these also?
Also basic math and logic tells me that if a nut wanting to kill people shows up with a 100 round barrel rather than a 10 round clip he will likely kill a lot more people. Maybe that seems to be a crazy ASSUMPTION to you, but I think most people can see the logic.
I think that many gun owners need to grow up a little and realize that just because they are fun to shoot (and I like shooting), we have to be responsible to the rest of society also.
Good debate Charles and Notacon. I side with Charles that banning large clips is an ineffective policy that will not reduce shooting injuries or deaths. Such a ban would give a home intruder an advantage over the home owner especially if there are multiple intruders inside the home. The intruder is the law breaker, not the home owner so the intruder(s) will more than likely not abide by the clip ban. Advantage intruders.
Right up at the top, Future states that: "Criminal will never be subject to these background check laws they get their guns on the street
Banning guns will not prevent criminals from getting them"
First, background checks will slow the spread of guns on the street.
Second it is impossible to prevent all criminals from getting guns, just as it is impossible to prevent all drivers from speeding. What we can and MUST do is to take steps that will slow the process. Consider this as a 20-80-20 deal. 20% of the population will never violate the law, regardless. Another 20% will never be hindered from trying to violate it, regardless. The balance, the 80%, will obey or violate depending upon the chances and penalties of being caught. What we CAN do is to raise the risks, and the penalties, to the point that most of that 80% will follow the law.
The issue is whether private citizens should be able to own assault rifles, unlimited amounts of ammunition and 30-100 round clips. Owning of guns is not disputed.
Even registering gun sales is being disputed: "What's the point of registering lawful gun owners?" Wayne LaPierre asked the crowd at CPAC today.
LaPierre's solution is, that before purchasing any gun, the buyer with cash in had checks one of two boxes on the sales agreement:
1. I am a lawful citizen.
2. I am not a lawful citizen.
If the second box is checked, the person will not be allowed to buy a gun. This is the Mr. Greenjeans method of making the world safe for democracy. This is the world of the NRA.
Sara......Good common sense letter.
YES, the right secured by the Second Amendment is
not unlimited.
The reason you can't own an automatic machine gun.
And President Clinton already got us an assault
rifle ban that lasted until George Bush and the
republican party did not re-new it.
If that ban was still in place, that nut-case
would not have had access to that assault rifle
and those kids and teachers would still be alive
today.
That mass killing is one HUGE REASON that we need
a new ban on military style weapons and mega clips
And the majority of Americans want it done.
Congress needs to act.
Americans should not be held hostage by minority
republican gun-nuts.
LET'S GET IT DONE!
"And President Clinton already got us an assault
rifle ban that lasted until George Bush and the
republican party did not re-new it."
Wrong. Democrats didn't want to. President had both Houses: Pelosi and Reid for 2 years. Either could have reauthorized the Federal assault weapons ban, pushed through easily and President Obama sign. There was no evidence that the 10 year ban resulted in any decrease in homicides. Plain and simple. End of story. Exactly as the NRA, and La Pierre, had predicted when it went into effect.
Carmine D
Lets see, oh thats right, you antis have the solution, you will fix the criminals refusal to obey the law with a wave of your magic fairy wand and sprinkle some magic fairy dust upon the words of the law to force the bad guys to obey the law.
See since our govt, readily acknowledges 95.52% of bad guys dont even atttempt to buy from a licensed source to begin with, explain what real, logical thing the so called universal background check actually does to change the criminals actions, oh thats right, only works if you are insane or overdosing on drugs to wave that magic fairy wand and sprinkle magic fairy dust to make such an obscenely stupid fantasy work.
Then of course you wack-a-loons are using the same wave of your magic fairy wand & sprinkling of your magic fairy dust to fix the failure of the BATF to actually enforce the existing law. I mean afterall, an organization actually responsible for enforcing gun control which has only prosecuted less than 1% of the 1.83 mil rejected since 1994 can with a wave of said wand & sprinkle of magic fairy dust instantly fixes everything eh, LOL!
Hey does your wand & dust also fix the BATF refusal to stop anyone using a fake ID, uh NOPE.
Does your wand and dust fantasy also fix the fact that by law, 85% of current 22,417 gun control laws dont actually apply to the bad guys? See you would actually have to repeal Haynes vs US 390, 85, 1968 & the 5th amendment, you know, that self incrimination thingy, where if one actually identifies themselves for registration, background check, licenses, permits, etc, etc, the bad guys can not be PROSECUTED by said law, nope! So when are you going to repeal the 5th amendment einstein wannabes?
We are so amazed and relieved that you antis are in fact opening up and identifying yourselves in public as being so insane or drug addled you really need to be addressed and added to the NICS database for people who by due process have lost their 2A rights. Then again since so many states refuse to obey the law and fund & resource the mental health reporting function to the NICS, we assume you believe waving aforementioned magic fairy wand and sprinkling magic fairy dust is your solution yet again?
I mean mental health experts show that there are 23.15 mil severely mentally ill in US w 50% of the US 2.7 mil prison population being severely mentally ill. We sane people recognize where many of the mentally ill whom the ACLU mainstreamed into US society in the 1970's went, you antis, not so much!
But hey, you believe you can also wave your magic fairy wand & sprinkle some magic fairy dust to arrest those 1.043 mil people w open felony warrants upon them in the US eh? Care to prove 50% of those people arent severely mentally ill either, your proof, oh yeah, magic fairy wand & magic fairy dust.
Yeah, you antis really have the real, logical solution to reducing violence all figured out, well, only if your insane or high on drugs.
In the US Per FBI UCR & CDC in 1991 24,700 murders, consistent % where firearms used is 67.8% =16,747 murders by illegal use of firearm, 15,383 suicides by firearms, 657 justifiable homicides, 1,463 accidental firearms deaths =34,250 deaths where firearms were used
2011 14,612 murders 67.7% used a firearm = 9,892, 591 justifiable homicides, 835 accidental deaths, 19,766 suicides = 31,084 deaths where a firearm was used.
Since 1991 to 2011, that is a reduction in"..
Totals / Rate
Violent Crime -37.04% / -49.04%
Murder -40.84% / -52.01%
Rape -21.73% / -36.59%
Robbery -48.47% / -58.31%
Aggravated Assault -31.26% /-44.36%
Accidental deaths -41.9% / -52.14%
So explain again how since 1991 there has been a 42% increase in firearms in civilian hands there hasn't been a 42% increase in violence or suicide?
1991 suicide rate 12.2 per 100k people, if increased by 42% = 17.3 per 100k people
2010 suicide rate 11.9 per 100k people
Uh dudette, that isnt an increase, its a decrease, and of course if one actually digs into the background information, they see that the baby boomers (born 1947 to 1964) all are reaching that age where suicides are more common, and with the massive increase in military personnel suicides, well, there are many variables the anti's refuse to acknowledge.
So explain again how the govt. data referenced here showing that more firearms in civilian hands doesnt equal more violence?
Thought you antis keep claiming more law abiding guns equals more violence?
Speaking of suicides, here is an organization which specializes in identifying root causes of suicides, explain again why they dont identify a tool as a root cause eh eisnteins? Oh thats right, actual facts from experts is ignored as it doesn't meet your agenda of hate!
http : // www . suicide . org / suicide-causes . html
Yeah, explain again how experts on the root cause of suicide, don't show access to a tool as part of their list of root causes, hmmmm, oh that right, magic fairy wand & magic fairy dust time for you antis again we see!
But then again, there is one thing to further destroy the anti's fantasy claim, is whether the number of attempted suicides is affected by legislation, and or the number of suicides using a firearm changes by said legislation, hmmm, let look!
Of course we see in 2005 how there were around 800,000 attempts at suicide in the US,
http : // www . suicide . org / suicide-statistics . html
Per USDOJ & NSSF data referenced above, we since 1991 have a 42% increase in firearms in law abiding civilian hands (about 65 million), which means if the antis causality effect of more guns = more suicides, the % and rates should reflect that!
So based on you antis claims, the number of suicides attempted in 1991 should have been roughly 2.21% a year (42%/19 years) or 30.95% lower than in 2005 to roughly paralell the increase in law abiding civilians firearms.
Having a hard time finding that number for 1991, but since we know the approximate survival rates of the methods used, one should get a close approximation
So we see in...
1991 43.3% of suicides used a firearm (90% fatal) ? total attempts 12.2 rate = 30,766 suicides
2001 55.1% of suicides used a firearm (90% fatal) 750,000 total attempts
2005 52.1% of suicides used a firearm (90% fatal) 800,000 attempts
2010 50.5% of suicides used a firearm (90% fatal) ? attempts 11.9 rate 38,364 suicides
Hmmm. we dont see a direct correlation to % of firearms increased in civilian hands and suicides, much less attempts, and GASP we actually see a reduction in suicide attempts even as the % and numbers of firearms are increasing dramatically!.
We will wait for your CDC proof that suicide attempts only amounted to 552,000 in 1991!
It appears you antis are running out of power from your fantasy magic fairy wands & magic fairy dust!
People seize on Scalia's admonition that the right to arms, as are all others, is not unlimited. But they fail to understand what he means by that, because they believe that that particular statement, taken in isolation, supports their anti-gun agenda.
It does not. It is well-established in American jurisprudence, and reflected in case law, that regarding fundamental rights only those laws that are narrow in scope, meet a compelling state interest, have a dead-certain likelihood to achieve their stated purposes, and are instituted in the least intrusive manner possible are constitutional. Only laws that do not materially curtail the right are permissible.
U.S. v. Miller (1939) established that arms in common use that have some reasonable relationship to the efficiency of a militia are those protected under the right. D.C. v. Heller (2008) established that handguns in particular, meeting this two-pronged constitutional test, are specifically protected. Both of these cases are precedent, which means that THEY ARE THE LAW.
A so-called "assault weapons" (sic) ban runs afoul of the Second Amendment because semiautomatic rifles and pistols meet both prongs of the Miller test, and are protected. By extension, any restriction that amounts to a de facto ban on their component parts and/or ammunition also runs afoul of the test.
You can tug heartstrings all you want, but these are facts that you simply cannot get around.
Face it, and move on. Frankly, we're tired of hearing it.
"There was no evidence that the 10 year ban resulted in any decrease in homicides."
CarmineD -- good point
"People seize on Scalia's admonition that the right to arms, as are all others, is not unlimited. . . . ."
Bhirsh -- a most excellent post
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Isaac H Tiffany (1819)
Letter is complete nonsense -- no one and/or agency has a right, duty or obligation to restrict and/or infringe upon a citizenry's natural rights -- natural rights conducive to the obligations and duties of preserving life and liberty afforded by the constitution including the possession of firearms -- some of the most corrupt, mentally challenged criminal elements of any society are public servants employed in positions of power to rape and pillage the masses of their rights, property, dignities, morals, obligations and duties -- resulting in such "gun reform" ignorance.
He who fears something gives it power over him.
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.
He who forfeits his liberties for the promise of security deserves neither.
Mankind is more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers.
When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default it can never be recovered.
Truth never damages a just cause.
: {
BHirsh (BARRY HIRSH): Ref your comment posted at 9:38 a.m. I suggest you read the actual decision handed down by the Supreme Court, which contains the comment "Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. . . " (Pp. 54--56".) AS for context: Immediately following that is "... the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional." The context clearly bans any attempt to restricban a militia-type weapon and to ban any attempt to render it, even temporarily unusable for self-defense.
You also argue that "A so-called "assault weapons" (sic) ban runs afoul of the Second Amendment because semiautomatic rifles and pistols meet both prongs of the Miller test, and are protected. By extension, any restriction that amounts to a de facto ban on their component parts and/or ammunition also runs afoul of the test." That very same test applies to fully automatic hand-held weapons, to hand grenades, to grenade launchers, and other arms routinely used by the military. Are you seriously advocating that possession and use of these weapons must also be freely permitted? Do you want your next door neighbor carrying one? Firing it in the direction of your home in his perceived need for self defense? Just how much "self defense" does a hand grenade offer?
Throw a grenade at a group of attacking people and find out Robert, it really isnt pretty, standard kill radius is 16 ft, and injury radius of 45 ft! Make sure you know the fuse duration and release the spoon before throwing so as the attacker wont have time to throw it back at you.
Then again since the massive majority of people cant afford such devices they dont buy them and since this discussion is about the average person, your misdirective attempt is irrelevant upon the discussion of what is a common weapon acceptabl, available, and AFFORDABLE for the average 99% of citizens.
You will also have to show that since 1934, that more than the two instances of registered NFA and destructive devices have been used in a violent crime, uh fyi, they were both COPS!
Stick to the discussion on firearms or be ignored.
Comment removed by moderator. Personal Attack
So Carmine and killerbee think it's ok for any
nut in America to run around with an assault
rifle, killing kids, teachers and people in movie
theaters.
And they say there's no proof that an assault
rifle ban works?
Well you sure can't ask those teachers, kids and
movie goers WHO WERE KILLED WITH AN ASSAULT
RIFLE!
YES, WE WILL BAN ASSAULT RIFLES!
And we won't listen to republicans who have no
common sense.
renorobert - I have read the entire decision, many times.
The U.S. v. Miller precedent forecloses fully automatic weapons, ordnance, etc. by stipulating that the protection applies only to arms IN COMMON USE. AR15's and the like are in common use. The holding also stipulates that the arms must have some reasonable relationship to the efficiency of a militia. AR15's and the like unquestionably meet this prong of the test as well.
Heller didn't change any of that, it reinforced it. Scalia loosely analogized the "any weapons, anyplace at any time" and "dangerous or unusual weapons" language with carrying a head axe in public at high noon. While fully automatic weapons and ordnance may fit the bill for "dangerous or unusual", semiautomatic firearms and their components DO NOT.
Please. The whole thing is rather straightforward.
See, the few antis usually do 1 of 4 things when confronted with facts...
1) they just shut up as they cant argue against the facts
2) they dump pathetic one-liners with inaccurate pathetic demonization of those they cant develop a logical response to refute
3) they go psycho on-line
4) they try in a polite fashion to convince you you are wrong repeating the same failed idiocy again and again as if the continuous repeating of the lie will somehow change it to be true.
All of those are perfectly acceptable results.
Then there are the rules they live their immoral life and actions by, Saul Alinsky's 13 rules for radical psychopaths!
RULE 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources -- money and people. "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood.
RULE 2: "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone.
RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.
RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones.
RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old news.
RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
RULE 9: "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
RULE 10: "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition." It is the unceasing pressure that will result in the reaction of the opposition that is essential for the success of the campaign.
RULE 11: "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.
RULE 12: "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem.
RULE 13: "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.
So let us begin the lesson of facts, which you nutjob progressives have never refuted, nor will you ever.
Lets identify who exactly is responsible for the majority of that violence first.
The government acknowledges in USDOJ National Gang Threat Assessment 2011, see pg 14, chart #8 for that massive number of violent crimes committed in the US each year committed by gang members.
For several decades, studies have been conducted on crime and causalities by various bodies including major universities, criminologists and even the U.S. Department of Justice. These studies have found that approximately 80% of all crime is committed by 20% of all criminals. Some of the studies have provided slightly different numbers but all of them have found that a small group of criminals commit a vastly disproportionate number of crimes than their peers.(Wolfgang et al ., 1972; Petersilia et al ., 1978; Williams, 1979; Chaiken and Chaiken, 1982; Greenwood with Abrahamse, 1982, and Martin and Sherman,1986).
2.7 mil prisoners
1.4 mil active gang members
2.5-3.5 mil active criminals
1.043 mil plus open felony warrants
Hence add in the career criminals.
CDC -Suicidal people speak for them-selves as suicide is a felony.
Shall we review police firearm discharge reports in Chicago and NYC where between 76-80% of those involved in shootings, both shooter and injured were both involved in criminal activity at the time of the incident.
www . popcenter . org / problems / drive_by_shooting / PDFs / Block_and_Block_1993 . pdf,
www . nyc . gov / html / nypd / downloads / pdf / public_information / 2007_firearms_discharge_report . pdf,
www . nyclu . org / files / nypd_firearms_report_102207 . pdf
Yeah, review of all the govt. data above shows over 92% of all killings by illegal use of a firearm are committed by career criminals, gang members, suiciders & crazies w approximately 50% of the remainder due to domestic violence incidents. A sane person would normally address the largest problem first don't you agree?
Lets continue this review by acknowledging how many of the existing gun control laws actually apply to the bad guys.
http : // supreme . justia . com / us / 390 / 85 /
Haynes vs. U.S. 390 U.S. 85 1968 where the US Supreme Court ruled 8-1 in favor of Haynes that any law requiring a felon to self incriminate themselves and violate their 5th amendment rights was not enforceable as a charge for prosecution.
Hence criminals don't have to follow 85% of the existing 22,417 gun control laws that do so, e.g. your stolen weapons, registrations, etc....
Would you care to suggest that the 5th amendment be repealed, no, don't think you would!
Then we should review how well those laws are enforced anyway.
Like the BATF for refusing to prosecute more than 1% of the 1.83 mil felons, others, and crazies rejected by the background check since 1994.
USDOJ Background Check & Firearm Transfer report 2008
In 2010 alone out of 76,000 felons who were caught attempting to buy from a licensed source, only 44 were prosecuted, a .00059% rate, that's less than 1/10th of a percent to you math illiterates!
Is the BATF that incompetent, not really, see the procedure for a rejection is to verify it, and when that occurs, one see's that between 94.2% to 99.8% weren't actually felons, but a paperwork error, on the background check. Hence the massive majority of those rejected, weren't felons, and legally able to buy a firearm, such are the annoying details and facts you antis cant refute.
Oh and geez, who was that prosecuting attorney of BATF agent that stated they didnt have time to prosecute a paperwork felony, as attempting to buy a firearm if you are one of those 10 categories of people who by due process have lost their 2A right, is indeed a felony.
We see that Harris & Keibold (Columbine) & Lanza (SandyHook) were rejected by the background check, yet it wasn't important to follow up on them. Care to explain that logic to the families of the 41 killed and 26 they injured?
Like the BATF for refusing to catch ANY of those lying on their 4473 forms (Cho, Loughner & Holmes were crazy, they lied) or using fake identifications.
cbsnews 2001/03/21 General Accounting Office study
Like the BATF for refusing to do anything about the 95.52% of felons who don't even attempt to buy from a licensed source to begin with.
DOJ Firearms use by Offenders Nov 2001
Like the BATF for refusing to allow civilians access to use the NICS background check for private sales as only licensed dealers are allowed.
Lets not forget that our politicians play a significant role in enabling the crazies to go free. As a result of VA Tech, Pub. L. 110-180 NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 was enacted.
The real question and failure, is what have the states actually funded or resourced for this mental health reporting to the NICS?
Going to the actual NICS website, we see as of Dec 2012, there are only 1.83 mil records of people who by due process have lost their 2A rights for being severely mentally ill.
You do realize in the 1970's how the ACLU mainstreamed the mentally ill into society, and people didn't want the half way houses for them in their neighborhoods, and politicians continually cut said funding, does anyone wonder where they went, we dont!
Yet mental health experts agree that on avg. over 23.15 mil US adults (50% of current 2.7 mil prisoners) are severely mentally ill.
http : // www . hrw . org / news / 2006 / 09 / 05 / us-number-mentally-ill-prisons-quadrupled
http : // www . fbi . gov / about-us / cjis / nics / reports / 20130102_nics-index . pdf
Don't forget the NCIC FBI database showing over 1.043 mil open felony warrants in the US today. Uh where's your data showing that 50% of these 1 mil people wanted aren't severely mentally ill eh?
So is that the 80 mil law abiding gun owners fault, BATF fault or the politicians fault, sucker question I know!
Then of course the anti's who consistently wish to blame inanimate objects for the rampage, yet based on government facts, the previous semi-auto rifle banned because they look evil, didn't reduce violent crime in any fashion.
How about this verified as authentic from the NIJ memo the NRA got their hands on, stating clearly that no AWB or Mag ban would reduce violence!
http : // www . nraila . org / media / 10883516 / nij-gun-policy-memo . pdf
Shall we look at the FBI report from several years ago?
Violent Encounters -- A study of Felonious Assaults on our nations law enforcement officers USDOJ, FBI, National Institute of Justice August 2006
You should read the National Sciences Foundation report from 2004 on gun control laws, a study that was formed by the anti gun Clinton Administration so just like the Ludgwig & Cooke study noted below, doesn't prove any causality theory, much less any effect of gun control laws on violent crime.
An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003, National Institute of Justice, June 2004
E.G. Government admits the ban didnt do didley squat
Firearm Violence, a critical Review" 2004
Even more hilarious is the fact the antis try to manufacture a mountain out of a molehill.
2010 FBI UCR database shows 1.25 mil violent crimes reported (4 mil not reported USDOJ National Victimization report), 322,691 involved a firearm, 14,748 murders, 358 by illegal use of any type of rifle, 162 by use of a semi-auto rifle banned because they look evil.
(firearms were used in 67.5 percent of the Nation's murders 14,748 = 9,955, 41.4 percent of 367,832 robberies =152,282, and 20.6 percent of aggravated assaults 778,901 =160,453.)
All while in 2010 FBI UCR, we see deaths committed by illegal use of hands, fists, feet, blunt objects and knives accounted over 3,259 deaths, each by themselves accounting for far more deaths than the anti's mythical boogeyman, the semi-auto rifle banned because they look evil.
The anti's really should get going on registering and banning hands, fist, feet, all type of blunt objects and all knives as clearly they are a more serious threat in the real world.
Better make sure to ban clenching ones fist and flipping the bird as well as by legal definition, that is indeed brandishing of a lethal weapon.
Of course the antis will persist as we see what actually happened with Loughner. Loughner, who used a 31 round magazine for his Glock pistol, overloaded said magazine and broke the return spring making it non functional and in doing so, fumbled his tactical reload when it wouldn't lock into battery as he had not practiced, thereby allowing people to tackle his dumb arse.
A 31 round magazine that when loaded is a heavy unwieldy device that requires a significantly different effort to lock into battery to fire. A fact that anyone with firearms experience, which the vast majority of anti's have none.
Many sport shooters use these same pistols in competitions, requiring only 1.4 seconds between last shot fired to first shot fired to first shot in the fresh magazine, 3 seconds for an average shooter..
Really hard to prove to everyone how people, running, ducking, hiding from an active crazy shooter like Loughner, can in 1.4 to 3.0 seconds, recognize the opportunity, stop, turn around, cross that distance and tackle Loughner without getting shot.
The FT Hood shooter was practiced in tactical reloads, was known to be accurate to 100ft with said pistol from witnesses, and there were 3f unarmed, but extremely brave military personnel who in that incident, attacked the shooter to attempt to stop him, t1 is crippled for life, the other two are DEAD! Such is the normal result of disarmed victims attacking bad guys who have guns, unarmed.
Then Holmes, he who had two of the temperamental and unreliable 100 round BETA c Magazines, who failed to load and properly lubricate either, and within 30 rounds jammed his rifle, leaving about 170 rounds unfired, ending his shooting spree.
Since police at best hit 15% of their shots fired, and a 1 death per 6 wounded normal distribution on shots that hit their targets per CDC Death & injury statistics....
15% x 170 = 26 more shots would have hit their target, resulting a worst 3-4 deaths 22-23 injuries.
Amazing how the shooters were not firearms savvy, unknowledgeable, and as a result, created the windows for stopping or that stopped their shooting spree as like good little sheep, those that obeyed the law were disarmed victims enabled by the belief that disarming the law abiding will result in less violence and actions.
But no, the anti's wish to limit people to lower capacity magazines. You know, those that are battle proven, ultra reliable so that the possibility of jamming the rifle by inappropriate loading or lubrication is so remote, as to making even untrained killers like Loughner & Holmes that much more effective at killing. Such are the unintended consequences of unknowledgeable fools.
http : // boston . com / community / blogs / crime_punishment / 2012 / 08 / no_increase_in_mass_shootings . html
http : // www . tampabay . com / news / criminologist-says-mass-shootings-show-no-pattern-or-increase / 1266381
James Alan Fox, a noted anti gun criminologist states in an August 2012 editorial in the Boston Globe; "No Increase in Mass shootings", that based on data extracted from official police reports to the FBI, shows annual incident, offender and victim tallies for gun homicides in which at least four people were murdered. Over the thirty-year time frame, an average of about 20 mass murders have occurred annually in the United States with an average death toll of about 100 per year.
Which agrees with Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, said that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century.
But hey, how can that be, when since you antis enacted the gun free victim disarmament zones where you progressives prefer children be killed freely, killings in said zones have quadrupled, with 60 of the last 61 occurring in said zones. (Gifford was shot in a parking lot).
Based on actual facts, the only place such killings are increasing/migrating to, is in your pet gun free victim disarmament zones where progressives prefer children are killed freely. Since the intellectually challenged antis believe in causality, you implemented the law and the killings increased, so where is all your remorse Jeffrey as in reality as all their blood is on your hands.
Shall we review how magazine capacity doesn't affect didley, yeah, lets.
It will be looked at as a time study, we who set manufacturing processes up do lots of these studies to accurately predict labor, material usages, predictions and savings.
Response times by the police range from most times 10 to 12 minutes from first call.
Witnesses identified shots were fired at 9:30 am when announcements were being made.
The first call was 9:35:44 to police dispatch.
In Sandy Hook, the first police officer arrived on site at 9:38:38!
9:40:24 Last shots heard--Lanza killing himself!
Time line:
Adam Lanza tried to open a locked door, couldn't, so he shot the glass out to gain entry upon which time the principal and school psychiatrist & vice principal came from the office and confronted Lanza who then killed two and wounded one. Total elapsed time, approximately 1 minute.
Then Lanza walked down the hallway to the 1st kinder-garden classroom about 20 ft away, max time to do so, 15 seconds, where he killed 1 teacher & 14 students.
Lanza then walked across the hall 25 ft away, max time 15 seconds.
Where upon he killed another teacher and 6 students.
Professional shooter can change a magazine in 1.4 seconds, someone familiar with the weapon, which Adam was, can do so in 3.0 seconds.
Since we know that he fired approx 79 -100 rounds, using 30 roundmagazines, and frequently changed them out after 10-15 rounds just as a veteran video gamer does, that is max 10 magazine changes x 3.0 seconds = 30 seconds.
Cyclic rate for the semi-auto rifle/pistol is 60 rounds per minute so 1 shot for every pull of the trigger per second = 79 to 100 seconds.
Total times
Office killing 1min=60secs
Hallway walk to 1st room = 15 seconds
Hallway walk to 2nd room = 15 seconds
Shootings =79 to 100 seconds
Reloads = 30 seconds
199 seconds to 210 seconds total = 3.333 to 3.5 minutes
Now if Lanza had been limited to 10 round magazines as antisclaim would limit the ease of killing, at 3 seconds reloads, needs say 20 mags based on his reloading habit magazines = 19 reloads x 3 seconds = 57seconds.
Oh what is this, a Sheriff, demostrating how stupid the antis claim is, that smaller capacity magazines would reduce killings, so sad such a consistent trend these facts are ....http : // www . youtube . com / watch?
v=b2Upjn5DR0o&feature=player_detailpage
That is an additional 27 seconds to the total = 3.783 to 3.95minutes total.
Reality is, limiting a shooter to 10 round magazines doesn't prevent jack schiite and you cant prove different!
Lets review the fantasy of the anti's that more firearms in law abiding civilians hands equals more violence shall we?
In the US per FBI UCR & CDC in 1991 24,700 murders, consistent % where firearms used is 67.8% =16,747 murders by illegal use of firearm, 15,383 suicides by firearms, 657 justifiable homicides, 1,463 accidental firearms deaths =34,250 deaths where firearms were used
2011 14,612 murders 67.7% used a firearm = 9,892, 591 justifiable homicides, 835 accidental deaths, 19,766 suicides = 31,084 deaths where a firearm was used.
Since 1991 to 2011, that is a reduction in"..
Totals / Rate
Violent Crime -37.04% / -49.04%
Murder -40.84% / -52.01%
Rape -21.73% / -36.59%
Robbery -48.47% / -58.31%
Aggravated Assault -31.26% /-44.36%
Accidental deaths -41.9% / -52.14%
So explain again how since 1991 there has been a 42% increase in firearms in civilian hands there hasn't been a 42% increase in violence or suicide?
1991 suicide rate 12.2 per 100k people, if increased by 42% = 17.3 per 100k people
2010 suicide rate 11.9 per 100k people
Uh dudette, that isnt an increase, its a decrease, and of course if one actually digs into the background information, they see that the baby boomers (born 1947 to 1964) all are reaching that age where suicides are more common, and with the massive increase in military personnel suicides, well, there are many variables the anti's refuse to acknowledge.
hmmmmmmm so much for more guns in law abiding civilian hands equals more violence ka ka as you antis always claim.
Hey lets compare that to a gun ban country like Australia.
By the way, what is a country, with gun bans suicide rate vs the US? Australia has 1/100th of our firearms, so they should have 1/100th of our suicide rate, uh dude, their 2010 suicide rate is 11.14 per 100k people.
What about murders, lets compare that as well.
1996 Australia 1.7 murders per 100k people 2011 1.08 murders per 100k people a -36.5% reduction
1996 US 7.4 murders per 100k people 2011 4.7 murders per 100k people a -36.5% reduction.
How is it again, that a country with a 42% increase in civilian firearm ownership and 100 times more firearms in law abiding civilian hands than Australia, have the same reduction in murders as they did?
Now if one breaks it down into weapons used if you take and look at the normal trend, one see's Australia reduction in murder by illegal use of firearms only reduced -4.41% from 1996 to 2011, the US from 1996 to 2011 was reduced -26.5%.
Lets do the same for England
Why is it that a country with 1/200th of our firearms, cant get to 1/200th of our murder rates much less their failure to reduce at the same rate as a country, the US that has increased the number of arms in civilian hands by 25% during the
same time frame.
1991 725 murders 22 of which were firearms, 754 VCR, 29,423 rapes, 45,323 robbery, aggravated assault 328,463, 10.7 per 100k suicides, 51 mil population 1.734 mil firearms
2011 638 murders 60 of which were firearms, 1,586 VCR, 38,332 rapes, 76,189 robbery, aggravated assault 307,427 suicide 11.8 suicides per 100k, 65 mil population, 1.801 mil firearms
Since 1991 to 2011, that is an increase/reduction in"..
Totals / Rate
Violent Crime 176.47% / 78.67%
Murder w Gun 172% / 114%
Murder -12% / -30.9%
Rape 30.27% / 2.23%
Robbery 68.1% / 32.9%
Aggravated Assault -6.42% /-36.15%
Suicides 10.57% / 10.1%
So explain again how since 1991 there has been a 2.68% increase in firearms in civilian hands there hasn't been only a 2.68% increase in violence or suicide?
1991 suicide rate 10.7 per 100k people, if increased by 2.68% = 10.99 per 100k people
2010 suicide rate 11.8 per 100k people
So much for less guns in law abiding civilians hands equals less violence by the bad guys ka ka!
Of course we see how in dozens of court rulings that the police are by law, not legally liable to protect the individual civilian.
Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982) (no federal constitutional requirement that police provide protection)
Calogrides v. Mobile, 475 So. 2d 560 (Ala. 1985); Cal Govt. Code 845 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Calogrides v. Mobile, 846 (no liability for failure to arrest or to retain arrested person in custody)
Davidson v. Westminster, 32 Cal.3d 197, 185, Cal. Rep. 252; 649 P.2d 894 (1982) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Stone v. State 106 Cal.App.3d 924, 165 Cal Rep. 339 (1980) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C.App. 1983) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C.App 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Sapp v. Tallahassee, 348 So.2d 363 (Fla. App. 1st Dist.), cert. denied 354 So.2d 985 (Fla. 1977); Ill. Rec. Stat. 4-102 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Keane v. Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (1st Dist. 1968) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Jamison v. Chicago, 48 Ill. App. 3d 567 (1st Dist. 1977) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Simpson's Food Fair v. Evansville, 272 N.E.2d 871 (Ind. App.) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Silver v. Minneapolis, 170 N.W.2d 206 (Minn. 1969) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Wuetrich V. Delia, 155 N.J. Super. 324, 326, 382, A.2d 929, 930 cert. denied 77 N.J. 486, 391 A.2d 500 (1978) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Chapman v. Philadelphia, 290 Pa. Super. 281, 434 A.2d 753 (Penn. 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
Morris v. Musser, 84 Pa. Cmwth. 170, 478 A.2d 937 (1984) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)
"Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others." -Lynch vs North Carolina Department of Justice 1989
Of course we see how police each year, fail to solve more than 8.06% of all violent crimes committed each year.
Police response times at best are 4 minutes, 15-20 minutes on average.
FBI UCR 2008 1.38 mil VCR (Violent Crime Reported) 45.1% solved to prosecution, 80% success rate.
http : // www2 . fbi . gov / ucr / cius2008 / offenses / clearances / index . htm
The British and Canadian govt. does an identical study to the Victimization reports, says the same thing!
http : // www . homeoffice . gov . uk / publications / science-research-statistics / research-statistics / crime-research / bcs1011tech1?view=Binary
http : // www . statcan . gc . ca / pub / 85-002-x / 2010002 / article / 11340-eng . htm
http : // www . bjs . gov / index . cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2224
But oh wait, we have to remember the 70% of violent crimes the government recognizes that were not reported USDOJ National Victimization report 2008.
http : // www . uscourts . gov / uscourts / Statistics / FederalJudicialCaseloadStatistics / 2008 / tables / D04Mar08 . pdf
http : // bjs . ojp . usdoj . gov / content / pub / pdf / cv08 . pdf
So based on that (1.38 mil x 45.1%) x 80%) / 1.38 mil + 4.8 mil = 8.06% of the violent crimes committed are solved each year.
So explain again hwo the police are there to protect you, when they really suck at doing so?
Guess freaks like jeffrey can show everyone they dont hvae life, car, home or medical insurance as based on their insanity, no one ever needs to be prepared for the worst case scenario. ThankGod you have just saved our country trillions of dollars by your one belief and claim, essentially voiding Obamacare as it is insane to be prepared, you must be God, but then communists like you dont believe in God.
How is it, that since recorder history we have only had 136 incidents of killings at schools? (79 world wide) http : // en . wikipedia . org / wiki / List_of_school-related_attacks#Secondary_school_incidents
Of the 136 the bad guys..
41 committed suicide
22 confronted in the act of which 5 committed suicide & 4were killed by police
59 were arrested after the incident
10 Tackled by unarmed victims 5 of whom were wounded
3 where an armed civilian ended the incident
1 Ruled self defense
Of the 136 incidents"364 deaths & 565 injuries
118 firearms 287 dead 395 wounded
12 Knifings 27 dead, 12 wounded
3 Bombings 51 dead 158 wounded
1 screwdriver 1 dead
1 hands 1 dead
1 hatchets 11 dead 2 wounded
1700-1960 .3 murders & .35 injuries per year
1960-1969 1.8 murders & 3.1 injuries per year
1970-1979 2.2 murders & 4.8 injuries per year
1980-1989 2.4 murders & 13.9 injuries per year
1990-1999 7.2 murders & 11.2 injuries per year
2000-2009 11.2 murders & 13.5 injuries per year
Amazing how with 18.4 mil students in 4,300+ advanced schools & 80 mil + students in over 120,000 private & public elementary & secondary schools, that only 24.7 are injured as such each school year for a .000000026% risk.
Bet more are killed in car accidents in the way to school each year than that, care to bet?
Hey lets compare a total gun ban country to the US like China, based on you antis beliefs, there shouldnt be ANY VIOLENCE there.
The above link has incidents in China collated also, at least those they admit to occurring.
68 killed 327 injured China summer 1995-2012 = 395 injuries
199 killed 235 injured US summer 1995-2012 = 434 injuries
How is it, that a gun ban country like China, with no guns, can have only a 10% difference in total school injuries, at least that is what has been allowed to be reported to the outside world.
One would think a country with 100% less firearms would have 100% less school injuries/killings as they have no firearms, based on anti gun freaks beliefs of no guns equals no violence, hmmmmmmm.
Lets review some actual self defense incidents in gun free zones, sad how there was an 8 times less body count than you antis wet dream gun free victim disarmament zones where you prefer more children to be freely killed by your gay schizphrenic love interests like Cho, Loughner, Holmes, & Lanza.
December 17, 1991 Shoney's Family Restaurant, Anniston, AL: 3 gunmen, 20 hostages, one ARMED customer (Thomas Glenn Terry). Police finally arrived to find one dead robber, one wounded robber and the third had fled when the shooting started. NO INJURED INNOCENTS.
April 24, 1998 Edinboro PA 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students-- when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home.
October 1, 1997, Pearl High School: 1 gunman, 2 murdered, 7 injured: Stopped by ARMED vice principal.
January 16, 2002, Virginia Appalachian School of Law: 1 gunman, 3 murdered, 3 injured. Killer was stopped when confronted by two ARMED students.
Nov 20, 2005 Tacoma WA, 20 yr old juvenile delinquent shoots 4 (1 non gun shot wounded) then exchanges shots with an armed civilian wounding him, but then takes 4 hostages and holes up before surrendering to police.
Feb 12, 2007 Trolley Mall Salt Lake Utah 1 gunman, 4 killed, 5 wounded before on scene off duty policeman shot and killed the heavily armed killer. Hundreds of peoplestill in mall when shooting ended before on duty police arrived.
Dec 9 2007, Colorado Springs, New Life Church, 1 gunman 2 murdered, 3 injured, gunman stopped when armed woman who worked security shoots gunman, who then turns gun on self and commits suicide, while 100 other church members are in church.
Winnemucca, Nevada in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with three hundred people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed carry license).
June 11 2009 , Washington D.C. An 88-year-old gunman with a violent and virulently anti-Semitic past opened fire with a rifle inside the crowded U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum on Wednesday, fatally wounding a security guard before being shot himself by other officers, authorities said.
May 4th, 2009 College Station Georgia 2 gunman, 10 victims, 1 dead gunman, 1 victim wounded. The 2 thugs robbing a party begin discussing if they have enough bullets to do the job. One man retrieves his firearm, kills one thug, chases the other off.
Amazing how armed guards also took out the bad guys, imagine that!
January 4, 2010 A US Marshall and a security guard were shot about 8 a.m. January 4 in the lobby of the federal courthouse in Las Vegas, Nevada. FBI Special Agent Joseph Dickey said that the shooting suspect was shot and killed.
August 7, 2010 Jerusalem; A security guard at the Ateret Kohanim yeshiva in the Old City of Jerusalem shot and killed a Palestinian man who snatched the weapon of another guard and used it to wound him.
Aug 30, 2010 Sullivan Co. Sheriff Dept. officer Carolyn Gudger is the school resource officer and is shown outside Sullivan Central High School in Blountville, Tenn. Gudger was the resource officer who first confronted Thomas Richard Cowan who had two handguns with him as he entered the school on August 30, 2010. In doing so, she delayed the gunman long enough for the school to do a proper lockdown and backed the gunman away from his hostage. The gunman was later shot and killed by police!
Aug 15, 2012 A gunman who shot a security guard Wednesday at the Family Research Council office in Washington, D.C., was carrying a handgun and several additional rounds of ammunition, federal investigators told NBC News.
The wounded guard, identified as Leo Johnson, wrestled the gun away from the shooter and prevented him from hurting anyone else, police said. (Can we say the gunman was INCOMPENTENT)
Dec 11, 2012 Clackamas Mall OR mall shooter Tyler weapon jammed when he saw Nick Meli, a cpl licensee drawing a bead on him.Tyler retreated into the stairwell, cleared his weapons malfunction and committed suicide rather than continue attacking and killing any more innocent civilians
Dec 19, 2012 San Antonio TX off-duty police sergeant, identified as Lisa Castellano. Castellano was working as private security at the theatre when she saw the gunman with his weapon in his hand. Castellano fired 4 shots and hit the man once, immediately ended the potential shooting spree. Police say over 30 shots were fired, including the 4 fired by Castellano. The suspect, if he survives, will likely face capital-attempted murder charges since he fired at a police car at one point during the incident.
January 1, 2013 Old Sacramento security guard Stefan Walton described the New Year's Eve shooting that killed two people and how he says he stopped the gunman.
Jan 31, 2013, ATLANTA, GA -- A student opened fire at his middle school Thursday afternoon, wounding a 14-year-old in the neck before an armed officer working at the school was able to disarm and apprehend.
Feb 1, 2013 Detroit MI, Police sources tell 7 Action News that a women's basketball coach from Martin Luther King, Jr. Senior High School shot two men who attacked him as he was walking two basketball players to their cars in the school parking lot. Police sources say the coach was walking the two girls to their cars when two men allegedly approached and one pulled out a gun and grabbed him by his chain necklace. The coach then pulled out his gun and shot both of them, according to sources. The man who shot the attackers was 70 years old, according to police.
Hey lets go to Guns Save lives website and see how many self defense incidents are collated there and we wont even go to all the websites and pull the on average 300 incidents per month..
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Would-Be-Ro...
http://www.fox8live.com/story/21526868/d...
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/21487553/ret...
http://www.kansas.com/2013/03/04/2701889...
http://www.wgal.com/news/susquehanna-val...
http://cjonline.com/news/2013-03-02/liqu...
http://newsok.com/midwest-city-homeowner...
http://fox4kc.com/2013/03/01/bank-robber...
http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/246148...
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Burglar...
http://www.wate.com/story/21429981/robbe...
http://www.khou.com/news/Police-Man-catc...
http://www.thenewsstar.com/article/20130...
http://www.click2houston.com/news/Man-sh...
http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2013/feb/25/tu...
http://www.kcbd.com/story/21320834/slato...
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local...
http://www.wcnc.com/news/crime/Police-in...
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?sectio...
Oh geez, more...same website between 3/8/13 and 12/26/12
http://www.khou.com/news/local/21-year-o...
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/to...
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/artic...
http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local...
http://fox43.com/2013/02/18/gun-toting-r...
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Homeown...
http://wtvr.com/2013/02/17/prospect-dead...
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/02/15/mia...
http://fox2now.com/2013/02/15/homeowner-...
http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/br...
http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida...
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/212021...
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/21215494/wom...
http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/te...
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/armed...
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/02/12/wo...
http://gunssavelives.net/redirect/?redID...
http://pgpolice.blogspot.com/2013/02/hom...
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index....
http://www.kten.com/story/21140452/bryan...
http://www.click2houston.com/news/Northe...
http://myfox8.com/2013/02/11/police-woma...
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro...
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Homeowne...
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/21091024/int...
http://www.azfamily.com/news/teen-intrud...
http://www.freep.com/article/20130208/NE...
More, same website...
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/re...
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?sectio...
http://www.douglascountysentinel.com/vie...
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=2397159...
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/...
http://www.wtvq.com/content/localnews/st...
http://www.wcyb.com/news/86-year-old-wom...
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20130...
http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.d...
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23921686&nid...
http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/man-shot-ne...
http://www.news-star.com/article/2013013...
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/55742...
http://www.officer.com/news/10861537/was...
http://www.whiotv.com/news/news/crime-la...
http://www.click2houston.com/news/Home-i...
http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/Homeo...
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/articl...
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/...
http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/jan/2...
http://www.wafb.com/story/20752250/homeo...
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/jan/...
http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/Magno...
http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/Homeo...
More same website...
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/Gutsy...
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime...
http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2013-...
http://www.wlos.com/shared/news/features...
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/mask...
http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/H...
http://www.waff.com/story/20653889/1-arr...
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/crime/res...
http://www.kfvs12.com/story/20630957/pol...
http://www.ksat.com/news/Security-guard-...
http://www.examiner.org/news/19864-armed...
http://gunssavelives.net/redirect/?redID...
http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/160...
http://www.ksat.com/news/Would-be-burgla...
http://articles.philly.com/2013-01-17/ne...
http://www.abc57.com/video/Homeowner-sho...
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Hom...
http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/Man-s...
http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/...
http://www.ksat.com/news/Homeowner-confr...
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Clerk-Shoot...
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/20574246/eas...
http://www.khou.com/news/local/Robbery-v...
http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/20557475...
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?sectio...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/09/pol...
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/...
http://www.krdo.com/news/Police-Homeowne...
http://wreg.com/2013/01/07/gun-toting-ho...
http://trib.com/news/local/casper/casper...
More same website..
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/wom...
http://www.cantonrep.com/news/crime/x189...
http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/20...
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Phoenix-hom...
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/01/02/mia...
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_n...
http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/crime-...
http://www.khou.com/news/crime/Resident-...
What about AR-15 rifles being used for self defense, darn, that happens to.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/212021...
http://wjbk.images.worldnow.com/images/2...
Feb 14, 2013 Security guard with AR-15 exchanges gun fire with 2 robbers.
AR-15 Makes an excellent home defense weapon!
http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/index.ht...
and version 2: http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall2/
.
The story below unfortunately ends with the homeowner arrested possibly because of the choice of using an AK to defend he and his family from a gang. Oh darn, the DA refused to press charges, isn't that too bad!
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/09/07/l...
Sept 7 2010, Long Island NY.
Wow, didn't the FBI UCR 2011 data show of the 390 justifiable homicides by police 33 were by rifles? Care to answer how many of those were AR15 pattern rifles?
Care to prove the same percentage used is different with civilian justifiable homicides so lets see your govt. data to prove it is as no one gives any credibility to an REMF drugged out fantasies.
Hey don't forget that kid in Rochester NY 1/24/13 who used his AR to fend off a couple burglars, no shots fired.
Or that 15 yr old kid in Houston a couple years ago June 29th 2010 who shot a burglar with his dads AR15 to protect his 12 yr old sister. http://www.khou.com/news/crime/Burglary-...
How many pictures did you see of the people along the Gulf Coast like my in-laws to be patrolling their properties with SKS & AR15 carbines to keep looters at bay after Ike hit in 2008, media doesn't like publishing such things.
How about those same situation and pictures from Katrina in 2005?
Hey did those National Guard troops have AR style rifles, well yes they did!
Oct 20, 1997 Richard Garriot (Creator of Worlds of Warcraft, uber irch) stops intruder with a warning shot from an UZI!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_rz2wBYi... Feb 17, 2009 AZ 3-4 bad guys pick the wrong house, and a guy with an AR15
Nov 12 1990, Harry Beckwith's Guns in Alachua County, Florida
Sunbelt Arms in Decatur, GA. November 1982
Sunday, February 24, 1984, approximately 2 PM. Gary Fadden, 26, and his lovely 22 year old fiancee are driving from a birthday party in Martinsburg, WV defended himself and his girlfriend with a Ruger AC 556 (full auto mini-14). I think there was a thread here on THR about it.
How is it, reviewing those 76 incidents between 12/26/12 & 2/15/13 from Guns Save Lives website we see that 26 incidents had 2 attackers and 8 incidents had 3 to 5 attackers?
Since the police at best only hit their target 15% of the time, that = only 4.5 hits out of a standard 30 round magazine.
Since you psycho antis claim that civilains arent trained enough, and the police are that poor of shots, and it takes on average more than 1 shot hit to stop an attack, where again is your logic that civilians dont encounter the same dangers as police and therefore need to be just as equally armed?
Afterall 47% of the time, there were multiple attackers, but then your fantasies always outweigh facts you loveable violent schizophrenic anti gun freaks eh!
Right, we already know you anti's are psycho and believe firearms are sentient beings and the root cause of violence, get a grip Loughner wannabe's.
Oh whats this, an organization which specializes in identifying root causes of suicides, explain again why they dont identify a tool as a root cause eh eisnteins? Oh thats right, actual facts from experts is ignored as it doesn't meet your agenda of hate!
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-causes.ht...
Of course we see in 2005 how there were around 800,000 attempts at suicide in the US,
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistic...
so based on you antis claims, the number of suicides attempted in 1991 should have been roughly 2.21% a year (42%/19 years) or 30.95% lower to roughly paralell the increase in law abiding civilians firearms.
Having a hard time finding that number for 1991, but since we know the approximate survival rates of the methods used, one should get a close approximation
So we see in...
1991 43.3% of suicides used a firearm (90% fatal) ? total attempts 12.2 rate = 30,766 suicides
2001 55.1% of suicides used a firearm (90% fatal) 750,000 total attempts
2005 52.1% of suicides used a firearm (90% fatal) 800,000 attempts
2010 50.5% of suicides used a firearm (90% fatal) ? attempts 11.9 rate 38,364 suicides
Hmmm. we dont see a direct correlation to % of firearms increased in civilian hands and suicides, much less attempts, and GASP we actually see a reduction in suicide attempts even as the % and numbers of firearms are increasing dramatically!.
We will wait for your CDC proof that suicide attempts only amounted to 552,000 in 1991!
Man look at all that data we had saved on file, not even 1/10th of it did we use, doesn't that just piss you anti gun freaks off, yeah it does.
Isnt that just too bad for sociopaths like poor Jeffery, who when confronted by facts they cant refute, call any who provide such evidence as crazy.
Guess all our founding fathers were crazy, all the English Professors who wrote and developed our language are crazy, all the Judges who agreed and ruled on all our rights are crazy thorughout history. the FBI, CDC, USDOJ, areall crazy to as its their data we used to data whupp you amoeba brains. Not to mention you inferring that the govt. and police forces of Australia, Canada, England, etc, etc, atc are all crazy also.
Yeah, when you get old enough to have an adult discussion, come on back, until then, go home cwying to your mommy to change your depends diapers as you are full of schiite widdle child.
Another vote for keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, including ALL illegal invaders.
Jarhead1982........
There's a new sheriff in town.
In case you haven't noticed.
His name is PRESIDENT OBAMA.
He is going to make sure that the will of the
majority of Americans gets done.
The majority of Americans want a new assault rifle
ban.
President Clinton got it done.
And PRESIDENT OBAMA will get it done.
You republicans need to stop crying about it.
You're acting like a bunch of big babies, crying
and pounding your fists on the floor.
It will do you no good.
There will be a new ban on the sale of assault
rifles.
Common sense will prevail.